Zetaboards is going

Discussion in 'Free Hosted Forums' started by IntoxNitram, May 8, 2018.

  1. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    RobinHood, let me say how much I appreciate all of your patience, and especially your comprehensible feedback.

    It is people like you who make America great, not some hack politician mouthing empty words.

    Greatness isn't in the saying, it is in the doing, as you are demonstrating above by sharing your knowledge without being condescending or demeaning.

    Thank you again!
  2. R0binHood

    R0binHood Habitué

    No worries, I really hope you're able to find a migration solution as I'm sure there are other people in the same boat who would benefit from getting off TapaTalk and into a better ecosystem in order to regain full control of their forums allowing them to thrive and grow as they best see fit :)
  3. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast


    I googled Invision and got a new site, and after some back and forth with a person at that site, came to realize that the name Invision is not definitive.

    I believe the Invision I talk about was really zIFBoards, formerly Invisionfree, the forum services operated by Zathyus Networks, which was taken over by Tapatalk in July 2017.
  4. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

    I've made a point of rereading all the posts in this thread, twice. Firstly I probably know as much about the situation between Zetaboards and Tapatalk as mysiteguy has posted, all that information is public domain and easily searchable. No insider knowledge is needed: e.g. http://www.zetaboards.com/tos/ and http://support.zathyus.com/topic/7021172/1

    Secondly, no one is mocking you, many of us have learnt the hard way if you don't have a backup of your data no matter where it is stored then you have lost control over what happens to it, be it on a local hard drive or a free hosted forum solution.

    Your are in a horrible situation but everyone here is trying to help you including mysiteguy who is probably more qualified than most to help you retrieve your data and get you set up in such a way that will allow you complete control over it.
  5. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    Thank you for expressing those thoughts, zappaDPJ.

    What I personally resent about mysiteguy's comments is the intimation that as site administrators, we were totally imnformed that this change-over to Tapatalk was going to result in a total loss of control over what had previously been our own forums that we could lock, and keep from being maliciously attacked.

    I also resent his intimation that we were informed by Brendan at Zetaboards that Tapatalk was going to provide us with a word processer that is a piece of garbage.

    We were not.

    Such it is, and you so wisely state, shame, on us for being stupid enough to put our trust into someone who clearly was not trustworthy, which should serve as an object lesson to anyone out there following this discussion who is considering becoming a blogger.

    Consider these words of wisdom from mysiteguy, to wit:

    Forum owners authorized Tapatalk indirectly through the Zetaboards terms of service.

    They said they had the right to change their terms at any time and your continued use of their service.

    end quotes

    There is the real lesson to be learned here, zappaDPJ, the use of that term "indirectly" in the sentence "Forum owners authorized Tapatalk indirectly through the Zetaboards terms of service."

    As an older American who has been blogging since 2004, and who believes in what Section 8 of the Article I of the New York State Constitution, the Bill of Rights, states, that “Every citizen may freely speak, write and publish his or her sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right," I think something historic has happened here with this sale or whatever it was by Brandon at Zetaboards to Tapatalk, which I think is unprecedented, at least in my limited experience.

    Tapatalk has done more than to take over our sites and to reduce us to being members of their crappy bulletin board; to the contrary, they are imposing the same type of "corporate censorship" over our speech that caused me to set up my own board in the first place, which takes us back to this statement by mysiteguy, to wit:

    Forum owners authorized Tapatalk indirectly through the Zetaboards terms of service.

    end quotes

    The use of "indirectly" in that sentence is both interesting and revealing, for how many different meanings can one attribute to the word "indirect?"

    Used in that sentence that way, then anyone who gets a safe deposit box at a bank indirectly authorizes the bank to sell access to the safe deposit box to any thief with the money to buy that access, which the box owner indirectly authorized by getting the safe deposit box in the first place, which mean bs that from this point forward, theft of intellectual property is no longer theft of intellectual property, because we who create the intellectual property have indirectly consented to its theft by the mere act of creating it in the first place.

    Just as if the owner of a building where an artist rents space to create art really owns the art created by the artist, because by renting the studio to create the art, by these new standards expressed above by mysiteguy, by the act of renting the studio, the artist has indirectly given the building owner all rights to the art created by the artist, while the artist has no voice or say in the transaction having indirectly given those rights away by the act of renting studio space.

    Yes, indeed, history.

    A new day in America dawns.
  6. mysiteguy

    mysiteguy Devotee

    Wordpress will be nothing like Zetaboards, it's forums are an add-on as well, and would require learning everything from scratch. The best bet is phpBB, it would be very familiar to you.

    There are people in technology you can trust. As you noted is there are also many you can't. I got burned badly by a company, cost me a lot of money, and it's why I suggested (maybe not as tactfully as I could have) not venting on the forums. Being screwed over sucks, big time, and I understand completely why you're upset. But from personal experience, public venting only made me angrier, more bitter and kept me from focusing on how to fix things going forward. Though, its easier said than done to put aside anger :)
  7. mysiteguy

    mysiteguy Devotee

    I loathe the company (Tapatalk) and their practices. I don't know enough about Zetaboards past to make any judgment call.

    I noted they (both Zetaboard and Tapatalk) had every legal right to do what they did. They use the standard "get out of jail" card many free sites use: "we can change the terms at any time without notice." So it makes pretty much everything else in their terms moot once they change them. No matter how much you try to find loopholes, complain, get angry, etc... that line makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to get them to reverse course or force them to change.

    No contempt for Zetaboard owners. Other than fleeting moments in this thread, they have occupied none of my thoughts.

    Your remark is false. I've never worked for either company, contracted for them, don't know any of their employees or contractors, or anything else like that. I have no inside information. What I do have is 30 years experience in the IT industry, knowledge of the phpBB database schema, and it's public knowledge which forum platform Zetaboards is derived from.

    I don't think you're a fool, stupid or gullible; and never said any such things. Your remarks are complete mischaracterizations of everything I've said.

    I wish you success with whatever route you take.

  8. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    Now. mysiteguy, that is the kind of INTELLIGENT post an older American like myself really both craves and appreciates, and I am quite serious when I say that.

    As the CommonGroundCommonSense forum taught many of us, neither common ground not common sense are very common in America anymore, especially in this day and age of computers, which have greatly empowered the malicious, who love to degrade and destroy, so when we find niches in cyberspace where intelligent conversation can be found, we greatly appreciate it.

    As to anger, mysiteguy, it is just like gasoline - if used wisely, since it is real, it can be a fuel to be metered to bring one forward, as has been happening to me in here in terms of the positive guidance I have received, or POOF!, it can blow you up and destroy you, and where is the future in that?

    And again, before I became public here, my first series of posts were pre-moderated by The Sandman, who then asked me to post them for whatever comments they might engender, suck it up, for example, move on, which is what I am actually doing in my own slow way.

    As I said above, separate and apart from any of us getting screwed over, something important is happening here, and that is the "corporatization" of speech here in America, where a
    corporation like Tapatalk has in fact stripped us of "liberty of speech" we formerly enjoyed on Zetaboards.

    If I personally have been screwed over, then being stripped of that right by Tapatalk would be at the top of my list of things to be not angry, but incensed and quite indignant about.

    Long before I believe that this Huang Dongri, who calls himself Winter Wong, CEO of TAPATALK, was even born in Hong Kong, I was wounded in the head and left for dead in Viet Nam, as well as being poisoned with Agent Orange, and recently, Aug. 1st, I had to undergo abdominal surgery as a result, and since I have to be an invalid, instead of whining and crying about, I spent my time "cultivating" my "personal garden," as it were, to keep my mind occupied on something positive that I could do as a cripple.

    On Monday afternoon, August 20, 2018, that "personal garden" ceased to exist, thanks to Winter Wong and his piece of crap Tapatalk, and yes, mysiteguy, right now, I am damned pissed off about it.

    And what I am doing about it is speaking out, a bit in here, but more in more public forums than this, bringing people's attention to this "corporatization" of the blog-o-sphere which is captured in this RECODE article "Having Successfully Made Forums Mobile, Tapatalk Raises $5.8 Million Seed Round - Tapatalk is a nice mobile experience for forums that already exist -- so nice it convinced millions to pay for its app." by Liz Gannes on Jun 16, 2014, 9:08am EDT, to wit:

    Over the years, as ugly and byzantine online forums like Reddit and Yahoo Groups have prospered, many startups have tried to improve the user experience for public online conversations.

    Sometimes, venture capitalists give these people a lot of money, especially when they say they’ll be more dramatically different — more mobile, more visual, more intelligent about the so-called “interest graph.”

    But it’s hard to bring people together in a new place, so many of those new sites and apps fail to foster actual discussion — and the legacy of text-heavy page load after page load in piles of sub-folders persists.

    Except now there’s a startup, Tapatalk, that seems to have carved off one corner of online discussions and made it work.

    Tapatalk is a nice mobile experience for forums that already exist.

    It’s not broken like so many of these sites are when you access them from a phone, and it even has fancy doodads like push notifications.

    Tapatalk creates a personalized news feed for each user’s favorite participating forums — popular topics among its 80-percent-male users include watches and cars.

    Millions of people were willing to pony up $4 to download the Tapatalk app on various platforms, and millions more have downloaded it since it went free.

    “Our approach is always to respect existing content that has been around since the beginning of the Internet,” said Tapatalk co-founder and CEO Winter Wong.

    Five-year-old Tapatalk originated in Shanghai and moved to Los Angeles recently as part of MuckerLab.

    After making its app free and starting to pursue an advertising strategy, the company has now raised $5.8 million in seed funding from Floodgate and IDG-Accel.

    Tapatalk has 2.5 million active monthly users and works with some 70,000 sites that have added its plugin.

    But that’s still a very small slice of what’s out there; Wong says by his calculations, there are 375 million global users of online discussion communities.

    end quotes

    Winter Wong came to here from China, in my estimation, because he saw us as fatted cattle to be fed off of, or sheep to be sheared, and neither the cattle nor the sheep, which is us former site administrators who no longer are site administrators, are to have a say in the matter according to his business model, which I see as deceptive, and based on theft and extortion.

    My personal problem is that I don't moo or baaah, well, nor do I chew cud or crop grass, so I am feeling what I think is rightful umbrage here at the business model that treats us as such.

    Is this the proper forum in which to utter those words?

    Or is this a taboo subject, capitalist nation that we are?

    I think, mysiteguy, that this is a part of the discussion The Sandman wanted brought out in here, to cause people to have to think what kind of world we are entering into.

    Think of the business models of these various web-hosting companies like Zetaboards, or whatever it actually is that they are.

    Their only means of raising money is through selling advertising, unless they also charge a fee to use the site, as was the case with the failed CGCS, which had no advertising.

    If the so-called "free boards" do not get users, who are the ones who really provide the "value added," then they fail.

    And their investors fail with them, which is Darwinism in action.

    This recent experience with Tapatalk's take-over of Zetaboards affected a multitude of people, not just a few.

    If they do like me and never go back to an established forum, including not posting on Tapatalk, those sites are going down, and if they are like Zetaboards and Tapatalk, then good riddance.
  9. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    Thanks for clarifying that I mischaracterized you, mysiteguy, I can accept that if you say it is so.

    My apologies are extended.

    As an aside, you do talk a lot like a corporate lawyer, as an authoritative voice, and those are the voices I like to hear from, as they cut to the chase and tell things the way they are, not how people like me think they are or how they should be.

    I have learned a lot from you in a short amount of time, and I value that learning.

    As to Zetaboards, I actually had a thread started on 22 August 2010 entitled "I don't like this Zetaboard" where I did voice my complaints with Zetaboard, this right after I switched to there from Invision Free:


    To somebody's credit, a serious effort was made by management to upgrade the board, and they did, and they were still doing so up until recently.

    If there were any glitches, and there occasionally were after a server outage, I put in a service ticket which was responded to in a timely manner, and the glitches were fixed, so in my estimation, Zetaboards was a good landlord, until the moment it decided the contents of apartment in their house were theirs to sell if and when they wanted.

    To me, that was a stark betrayal of myself, but as you say, such it is.





    These are all lessons that a multitude of people in America just learned in this last week, and I am curious how far the waves from that pebble being dropped in the pond are going to spread.

    Far, I would hope, and I hope some corporate boats get overturned and swamped in the process, starting with Tapatalk.

    As to the standard "get out of jail" card many free sites use: "we can change the terms at any time without notice," if I ran an auto repair facility and you brought your car to me for repairs, I would give you a piece of paper titled service agreement and it would have your name on it, and it would list the things you wanted done, and then, I would have you sign below some small print that said "I can change the terms at any time without notice," and when you left, I would sell your car to a used car dealer I know, and when you came back all upset, I would pull out a magnifying glass and show you those words and tell you that you agreed to changing the terms at any time without notice, and that was exactly what I had done - I had changed the term "repair your car" to "sell your car," because you had agreed that I could do it.

    What a heaven sent opportunity for car thieves is arising here with those weasel words - instead of stealing cars, all they have to do is get you to sign a repair order with those words on it, so they could sell your car legally instead of having to steal it.

    God bless America and capitalism, isn't it, mysiteguy?

    Thanks to Brendan at Zetaboards and Huang Dongri, who calls himself Winter Wong, CEO of TAPATALK, a new day is dawning, at least for the car thieves in America, let alone those who steal intellectual property, since the concept of intellectual property no longer exists.

    mysiteguy, again I apologize if I have misjudged you based on your words.

    And I appreciate the fact that is a very short time, you have opened up a lot of eyes in our America.
  10. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    And here we are back to the first post of this thread, which takes us to my post @ Livyjr, Yesterday at 8:34 AM on p. 2 where I posted as follows:

    And if one looks at the bottom of the page at Tapatalk, https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the_livyjr_files/ one notices that Zetaboard is listed not as something "acquired," but instead as a partner, and if one then clicks on the word "Zetaboard" under "partners," this is what one gets:

    Want to Build a Community?

    Already have one that needs a place online?

    ZetaBoards offers free forum hosting that serves as the perfect site for growing an online community.

    Our forum software has been used by millions of people looking for a place to gather, discuss and share.

    end quotes

    I'm surprised there has been no commentary on that.

    When you click on that, you are taken to a Zetaboard page where you can sign up, which then takes you to this Tapatalk page https://www.tapatalk.com/tapatalk_groups where one finds the following misleading, deceptive and very false advertising:

    Tapatalk Groups is 100% compatible with traditional forum systems, and our migration service ensures that all your posts, attachments, pictures and permissions, domain URLs and even Google SEO can be migrated seamlessly.

    (And of course, you can preview before anything is actually moved).

    And, you keep full control and ownership of your content!

    end quotes

    None of that is true, all of that is false, and thanks to this forum for providing a venue to pull this viper named Tapatalk out of the grass where it is lurking, looking to snare its next victims, just like it snared us a Zetaboards.
  11. R0binHood

    R0binHood Habitué

    Hey Livyjr

    Just a quick tip for when you want to quote pasted text or text from other sites in your posts, there's a useful quote function in this editor that adds quote BB code around the text you want to quote. When you then submit your post it will format it in a much clearer fashion for others to read, here's a gif of how to use it :)

  12. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    And since we are back to that first post, thanks to IntoxNitram, and since his post links us back to the lies, deceit and deception of at least Brandan at Zetaboards, this is what we former Zetaboard site administrators who have been stripped of that status by Tapatalk were told by Brandon on May 7 2018, 01:10 PM, as follows, in his own words, which can be checked by clicking on the link yourselves:

    ZetaBoards has been working with Tapatalk to create a free forum hosting platform that is a worthy upgrade for ZetaBoards.

    end quotes

    Now, stop right there for a moment and consider the words "create a free forum hosting platform that is a worthy upgrade for ZetaBoards."

    How many different meanings does "worthy upgrade" have in the IT trade?

    Getting back to Brandon on May 7 2018:

    As a result, ZetaBoards will begin an upgrade process to move all of its communities to Tapatalk’s platform.

    end quotes

    Out of curiousity, why would those of us site administrators who read those words when posted in May have been suspicious that we were about to be screwed big time by Brandon?

    Should we have seen the lie back then?

    And back again to Brandon:

    Some of the benefits of the new platform include:

    - Revenue Sharing of advertising revenue

    - Full mobile support including native iOS/Android App, a responsive mobile theme as well as AMP support out of the box.

    - The option to accept donations for your forum

    - The option to Premium memberships to access designated forums

    - Single Sign-on support for multi forums.

    - Robust GDPR support for European Union visitors.

    - Enhanced spam detection and removal.

    We have been working on a major series of updates to ZetaBoards.

    These upgrades will now be happening on the Tapatalk forum platform.

    The development resources that Tapatalk can provide to the platform means more feature updates, more feature testing, and more frequent updates.

    And we will be adding some ZetaBoards features and functionality to Tapatalk in the coming weeks.

    We want the upgrade to be as smooth as possible for all ZetaBoards' communities.

    If you have a specific concern or question we would be happy to answer it.

    Live previews of ZetaBoards forums’ on Tapatalk’s platform will be made available soon for testing the migration process.

    -Brandon Kopetzky

    end quotes

    Thanks for posting that link, IntoxNitram.
  13. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    Thank you again, RobinHood!
  14. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    mysiteguy, in the hypothetical case that someone experienced like yourself were to scrape my files from Tapatalk, would they then be gone from Tapatalk?

    Or would they still be there to be tampered with by whomever wanted to tamper with them for malicious purposes?
  15. doubt

    doubt Tazmanian

    They would stay there.
  16. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    Since we are now in the latter stages of this discussion, where we are detailing and summarizing all the outright lies as well as the deceit and deception underlying this transfer of files from Zetaboards to Tapatalk, we are back to this post made by zappaDPJ, where the first link takes us to the following at Zetaboards, which terms of service I as a site owner at Zetaboard agreed to and was very well aware of:

    Terms of Service


    A registered or unregistered person accessing a page on ZetaBoards.

    A registered person on ZetaBoards.

    A set of data tied to a username created after a user has registered on a forum.

    Posts, messages, links, email, uploaded files, usernames, or any other user created data.

    A message board (forum) provided by ZetaBoards.

    Owner Account:
    The original member account available when a forum is first registered.

    end quotes

    Note that the above language is not mine, rather, it is what Zetaboard posted, which can be checked by clicking on the link independent of me.

    According to Zetaboards, and we all now know this was false advertising by Brandon Kopetzky, while at Zetaboard, I was in fact a site owner, in addition to being a site administrator, a task I could have chosen to delegate, but didn't.

    Zetaboard then followed that up by saying this:

    All references to "owner", "forum owner", "you", or "your" refer to the person who accepts these Terms of Service.

    end quotes

    In my case with The Livyjr Files, that referred to me, and that people, is a contract, which in the case of Zetaboards, and presumably every other on-line forum, was not worth the virtual paper it was written on.

    That it was a contract that was subsequently breached by Zetaboards, which entity acted in bad faith, can be seen from the following:

    1 Accepting the Terms of Service:

    By creating a forum or using an Owner Account, you agree to be bound by these terms and conditions as well as the Terms of Use at all times and to any changes made to these terms thereafter.

    end quotes

    Going through this contract line by line, we then come to this:

    2 The Service:

    ZetaBoards is provided as-is with no guarantees for fitness for a particular use, usability, or availability.

    Free Forums are never deleted for inactivity.

    There are no limits on the quantity of posts or members.

    You agree that ZetaBoards may add or change service limitations at any time, with or without notice.

    You may not modify and/or remove any copyright notices or labels on the Service.

    end quotes

    In their own language, there is what myself and all other site owners at Zetaboards agreed to, that Zetaboards could add or change service limitations at any time, with or without notice.

    At no time did Zetaboard ever state that a "service limitation" would include being stripped of the ownership of our forums that Zetaboards had previously agreed to.

    And then we come to #3:

    3 Content:

    ZetaBoards does not guarantee that Content will be protected from loss, deletion, removal, or damage.

    Backups are the responsibility of the forum owner.

    end quotes

    But our content was not lost, deleted, removed, or damaged.

    It was sold to Tapatalk, but I think this is one of the "get-out-of-jail-free" cards used by Zetaboards to screw its site owners that mysiteguy refers to above, because those weasel words can be tweaked by a lawyer to mean anything under the sun.

    Moving along here:

    3.4 Rights to Posted Content:

    Any content uploaded or posted to ZetaBoards may be displayed on a forum by ZetaBoards.

    You grant ZetaBoards the right to display and store the Content you provide.

    end quote


    As a site owner, I and all the other site owners agreed to grant ZetaBoards the right to display and store the Content we provided.

    But Zetaboards is not storing the Content we provided, which is defined by them as posts, messages, links, email, uploaded files, usernames, or any other user created data on the message board (forum) provided by ZetaBoards.

    Instead, they breached that contractual clause by transferring that Content to Tapatalk in violation of that contractual clause they had agreed to, when they granted us ownership of our forums on their service, or message board.

    That our service agreements with Zetaboards were contracts legally binding on Zetaboards is clear from this clause of the contract, to wit:

    9 Legal Disputes:

    These Terms of Service and your account with ZetaBoards will be over-seen by the laws of The United States of America.

    You agree that these Terms of Service are under the jurisdiction of the State of Maryland.

    You agree any legal filings or lawsuits must be filed in the State of Maryland.

    end quotes

    Which brings us to this:

    10 Modification of the Terms of Service:

    ZetaBoards reserves the right to change these terms at any time.

    All changes will be effective at the time they are posted.

    Your continued use of ZetaBoards will constitute your acceptance of any modifications made.

    end quotes

    Except as we can see from the post IntoxNitram started this thread with, no changes were ever posted notifying the site owners that we were to be stripped of our site owner status, with control of our forums being stripped from us and instead being handed to the corporate censors at Tapatalk.

    Which brings us to these concluding clauses of the Zetaboard contract as follows:

    13 Resale of the Service:

    You agree not to sell any part of the Service or access to the Service.

    14 Forum Ownership:

    The user that registers a forum is considered the owner of the forum, unless that ownership is subsequently transferred.

    Ownership can be transfered to another user by providing the login information to the Owner Account, or in the event of an inactive account, under the terms of our Ownership Transfer Policy.

    When the login information is given to another user you must provide a link to these Terms of Service.

    Only the Owner Account is considered the owner of a forum with full privileges.
  17. R0binHood

    R0binHood Habitué

    Unless the forum was deleted, which it would make sense to do or request if you were migrating all the data away to start anew.
  18. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    Except that there is no way at Tapatalk to close or delete a forum, which remains a great concern of mine, as I am rightfully concerned about the integrity of my files.

    All control of our forums has been stripped from us.

    I was on the support forum asking how to close and lock my forums, and in response, Tapatalk simply closed the support forum.
  19. Livyjr

    Livyjr Enthusiast

    We went from being site owners at Zetabords to being second or third-class citizens at Tapatalk, which is very intolerant of being questioned or criticized.
  20. R0binHood

    R0binHood Habitué

    So wait, you’re saying you cant’s delete individual sub forum/categories on your site?

    Are you forced to move threads from one sub forum to another if you try to delete one?

    Are you able to mass delete individual threads in any way?

    (Obviously don’t try to test this in such a way that you may lose a lot of content if it works!)
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