Yaldaram.com's new theme (plagiarism to the max?)

Discussion in 'Community Styling' started by echo_off, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. TrixieTang

    TrixieTang Politically Incorrect

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    There's a thin line between copying and "inspiration", but there's a big difference between copying/inspiration and ripping. Ripped skins are easy to spot, they're just copy/paste jobs. Copying and inspiration on the other hand are a bit more subjective.

    For what it's worth, I can name at least 3 big-name IPB skinners/designers/whateva-ya-wanna-call-em who sell skins that are very, very clearly inspired by other skins. One has released skins that are clearly based off Neowin and whirlpool.net.au. Another released a skin that's very heavily inspired by XenForo's default theme. And another attempts to emulate SkinByDragonfly's style in all of their skins. These aren't no-name designers that I'm talking about either, they're some of the most well known IPB skinners out there. What they do isn't ripping, they don't copy code from others, but they do copy the basic look-and-feel.

    Yaldaram appears to have started as an attempt to emulate XenForo's theme, but they ultimately crossed the line into blatant ripping. Obviously they'd likely lose if it went to court, but had they just been "inspired" by XenForo's theme then they may have actually been in the clear. The real question that needs to be asked here is when do HTML and CSS become unique to the point that one can successfully claim ownership in court? There's really quite a big difference between using this...

    Code:
    <span itemtype="http://data-vocabulary.org/Breadcrumb" itemscope="itemscope" class="crust">
    and using something like this...

    Code:
    <span class="item">
    So, where is the line if you don't blatantly rip things like Yaldaram pretty clearly did? Like Jacquii said a few posts back, that's something that really has to be decided in court.
     
  2. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    I know what you mean. I get it. And I agree. I know what those terms (eg ripping) entail.

    In Yaldaram's case, are you still referring to the breadcrumb navigation? As I said I agree on that. It is clearly a blatant copy-paste job.

    Yaldaram's theme isn't a total rip/copy-paste job though. My previous post in this thread is just one example of that:

    I haven't checked every nook and cranny of Yaldaram's skin, though.

    EDIT:

    Anyway, I've found a screenshot of one of Yaldaram's previous skins:

    ai.imgur.com_okQu3.png

    At least this one was original and unique, and not a sad XF copycat :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  3. TrixieTang

    TrixieTang Politically Incorrect

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    I never said it was a complete rip, but the fact that they did copy some code directly from XenForo really says a lot about their intentions. This wasn't just an attempt to emulate, this was an attempt to "steal" XenForo's design if you will.

    If XenForo decided to take this matter to court, they would most likely win, even though it was only a small portion of their code that was actually copied and pasted. Were this just an attempt to emulate or draw inspiration from XenForo's theme then it may be another story, but the fact that they ripped even a small portion of the code shows that that really isn't the case.
     
  4. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    Absolutely true.

    I hadn't checked the thumbnail navigation before, but it is clear parts of the css for it were blatantly copied over.

    The breadcrumb on their previous theme (see image I posted in previous post) at least looked different enough.

    I can't grasp why some people seem to be so bend on making their forum look so similar to another one or that of another platform in the first place. It's infinitely more rewarding to come up with an original design yourself.

    I don't mind designs that are inspired by other ones, but as you said there is a world of difference between that and making a carbon copy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  5. cheat_master30

    cheat_master30 Moderator

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    Not a good example of that. I mean, with the exception of 'class="crust"', literally all said code is what's expected under the data-vocabulary.org schema. It's like complaining a site uses the same HTML doctype as another.

    But that aside, I have to wonder a few things here...

    Namely, this is the XenForo default style they're copying. Given that it's legally allowed to be used on any XenForo installation in existence, what exactly says you then can't use it on another script presuming you also own a XenForo license? Because it seems strange to say one way or the other here. I mean, do you immediately have to change your site style the second you change forum/CMS script? If your site used XenForo once and then moved to IPB (with a default/mostly default style in both cases), is it really wrong to continue styling the new script to look like the old one you switched from?

    As for whether it's blatantly trying to rip off the XenForo theme... well obviously. I just wonder what the legal grounds are when it comes to default software themes and people with multiple licenses and what not.
     
  6. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    Yaldaram is just emulating the XF style. Apart from the breadcrumb navigation, which most of the css for it is indeed blatantly copy-pasted over from XF, no other elements I've checked so far, even though looking very similar to XF, use the same css and html. So apart from the breadcrumb, the rest is just simulation not a rip of the code. Not only that, but looking around the site for just a minute will reveal quite many visual differences, too.

    It doesn't seem Yaldaram designed this skin with the XF templates and stylesheets lying next to him, he just made it to look like XF as best as he could, apart from the breadcrumb which is an exact rip.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  7. PoetJC

    PoetJC ♠ Jacquii: Black Kween of Hearts ♠

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    Thanks for the factual clarification!

    Oh poppycock :daroldi:
    You posted factually incorrect info. I'm glad Ken came by and corrected it for you.

    J.
     
  8. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    I just mean, and it is true, that there are quite many visual differences between the Yaldaram skin and the XF one, and that apart from the breadcrumb navigation (for which Yaldaram copied parts of XF's exact code), there seem to be no other elements on yaldaram's skin that use the same code as XF (For an example see one of my previous posts where I compare an element of the Yaldaram skin to its XF counterpart).

    So, apart from part of the breadcrumb css, no other elements (that I know of so far) seem to be using the same html XF is.

    Therefore, Yaldaram's skin is not a complete rip, not by far, just the breadcrumb, that's all. And even there it's just parts of the code, albeit much of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  9. Darth_Apple

    Darth_Apple Adherent

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    I've actually seen very similar breadcrumb styles on many MyBB forums out there. This tutorial, for example, uses very similar breadcrumbs as well. While it is obvious that Yaldarim's design was attempting to emulate Xenforo by using those breadcrumbs, I don't think that Xenforo is the only place by any means that similar breadcrumb styles can be seen in use.
     
  10. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    That's correct.

    XenForo does not own the breadcrumb navigation concept. Anyone may use it.

    It is clear, however, that Yaldaram has copied portions of XenForo's exact breadcrumb code.

    It isn't really all black or white though, there are grey areas as well.

    For certain elements, there are only so many ways it can be coded. I'm talking about the code at the foundation of the element; the code that builds the element itself in its basic form, where it isn't styled to fit your personal aesthetic preferences yet: color, border, border-radius, padding, font-family & size, etc. If you want to use an element in your design that really only has one, or a few, specific way(s) to code/build, then you can't be expected to not use said element because it has already been used by someone else.

    Of course, you can make it stand out by using different class names and an appearance that is at least a little bit unique.
     
  11. TrixieTang

    TrixieTang Politically Incorrect

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    At this point I'm not so sure that Yaldaram intentionally copied the breadcrumb, that modification tutorial on MyBB's site appears to be where the copy/pasted XenForo code that they used came from, which in turn was based on a modification that was posted on vB.org.

    The code in the breadcrumb mod/edit isn't an exact copy of XenForo's (I found some very slight differences), but I still think it's dangerously close.
     
  12. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    Are XF even the ones who first came up with that breadcrumb thing?

    Maybe it originated from some open source.

    EDIT:

    I don't mean if XF invented the breadcrumb. Of course, they did not. The way to build it, did already exist in html & css, obviously.

    I mean if XF were the first ever forum (platform) to use it (as a means of site navigation).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  13. nolvorite

    nolvorite Aspirant

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    Plagiarism isn't the most appropriate term to call this
    it's not writing

    It seems like his inspiration (or lack thereof) was from Xenforo
     
  14. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

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    I suppose the important question to ask is when does something like this cross the line and let's face it, even in a court of law the answer might not be obvious.

    In this case you have a forum that's clearly copied much of the theme from a commercial product. That in my mind makes the issue highly debatable.

    Is the forum in question a commercial enterprise?

    Now I think they are crossing the line. It's a commercial enterprise using a close copy of someone else's work to entice potential customers.

    Is the Xenforo like theme for sale?

    Now I think a line has been crossed. While it's still probably still arguable I'd personally favour the odds that Xenforo would win their day in court should they choose to go down that route.
     
  15. ZiggyM

    ZiggyM Happy 2014!

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    While Yaldaram's theme looks similar to the XF one, there are many noticeable aesthetic differences throughout the site, and the code is also different from XF's.
     
  16. ŽivaAkcija

    ŽivaAkcija Aspirant

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    is this guy alive?when i use Mybb i loved his work, anyone know what happened?
     
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