Xenforo Forum Staff

Discussion in 'XenForo' started by Wes of StarArmy, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. Lisa

    Lisa Chaotically Proportional

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    I jumped into this thread on the second page, I must have marked it read without reading it previously, and thought to myself "oohh what did they do that was so bad" so I went back to the beginning, read through, clicked the link to read the thread where Brogan was a bad boy.. and you know.. I was kinda disappointed.

    The OP throws out a badly-veiled insult "You guys (Brogan Mike) should have been around the block enough times now to know that assumptions are bad." then ends his post with a snippy "/2c spent".

    The way it's presented here is that Brogan replied with one line "A simple search would have confirmed that." and yet he clearly didn't. First he explained that it's always been possible to upgrade, made a comment about all the places it's been clarifying. KevinKevin added that it's in the manual, which is what Brogan dryly responded to. I didn't view it as rude or patronising, but simply a self-deprecating bit of humour, which was then followed by an overreaction.

    Mountains and molehills. Haven't people got anything better to do than look for things to bitch about?

    **goes back to cave**
     
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  2. MagicalAzareal

    MagicalAzareal Magical Developer

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    It's really a combination of all three lines which makes it so incendiary.

    The bold makes it feel like he's shouting (it alone wouldn't be as bad, but it's synergistic with line two), then stressing how clear he has made it over the years, and then, finishing up with one saying the guy should have done a better job at researching it.

    The "correct response" is really:

    "Yes. It is possible to upgrade from x to y.

    It is also safe to assume that this is always the case and is unlikely to change in the future."

    Maybe, tone is hard to convey over the internet, but it would paint a bad picture either way.
    And just about everyone knows that users never read the manual for anything and to never assume they do lol

    If they do, it is easy to miss things when scanning over it.

    Also, I don't have enough information to say why he put that slightly provocative comment in the OP, but it shouldn't really have had much of a bearing on the response (or that part of the response). People get annoyed. People get fed up at times.

    That's my two cents.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  3. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

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    Thick skin or thin.
    Personally offended or not.
    Rude customer or not.

    One person in that interaction (and multiple others) was an employee. It's really that simple... To me.

    No, I'm not offended. But I can recognize when a representative of a company is being sarcastic with a customer.

    I would not be OK with one of my employees speaking to someone like that through an official channel, in an official capacity.
     
  4. Lisa

    Lisa Chaotically Proportional

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    Maybe it comes down to the differences between UK/US/Other Countries. We're known to be a pretty droll/dry race and that's how we talk to each other. It's not being rude/demeaning/insulting, it's just the way we phrase things.

    The bolding doesn't define shouting, it's emphasis on specific things - clarification, perhaps.

    I suppose the only person it really effects is the person he was responding to (with his second post).. which, incidentally, was Kev not the OP ;)
     
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  5. sanction9

    sanction9 Enthusiast

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    I'm not on any kind of anti-Xenforo bandwagon, searching out examples of a wider, evil pattern, so I'm really only concerned with and commenting on this particular case. And in this case, I think a condescending, snooty "suggestion" got what some might agree was a well deserved reply that was equally condescending and snooty. Maybe Brogan wasn't right in responding to a customer that way, but on the other hand the customer does not always get a free pass on rudeness just because they're the customer. I am not one of those people who believe the customer is always right.

    This thread started out accusing the Xenforo team of what was supposed to be another example of their rotten customer service, and when that was proven unjustified, instead of just saying, "sorry, we were wrong," the same people all congregate over another thread that's supposed to prove the same rotten customer service - except, again, I find the evidence less than convincing. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

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    Have we forgotten "2 wrongs don't make a right"???

    I was taught that growing up. I've taught my kids that.
    Why are we acting like an abrasive OP justifies the replies?

    And that's ignoring the fact that, again, this is a company rep responding to a customer.
    I'm not sure the customers tone has any place in the discussion - especially considering this isn't a "one off" from Brogan.
     
  7. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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    Would you like a brand new heathy and handsome baby?
     
  8. sanction9

    sanction9 Enthusiast

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    I'm not sure the customer's tone does not have a place in the discussion, as well as whatever they actually say. If you don't like the way you're treated by a company, buy from another company. Do anything but keep insisting that the buyer is always right and that every business in the world must agree with you.
     
  9. phatcows

    phatcows Enthusiast

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    I'll use this 'excuse' for all international dealings going forward and see how far it gets me...
     
  10. Bionic Rooster

    Bionic Rooster Adherent

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    I agree the customers tone can generally affect the type of response. As for it not being a "one off" you'll probably find those customers post solicited a perceived negative support response also.
    Contrary to popular belief the customer is NOT always right just indignant they didn't get what they wanted.
     
  11. Lisa

    Lisa Chaotically Proportional

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    I don't even know what that means.
     
  12. Lisa

    Lisa Chaotically Proportional

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    It's not an excuse, it's pointing out that how you're reading it is not necessarily how it was meant.
     
  13. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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    I Think i need to work on my pick up lines
     
  14. Joeychgo

    Joeychgo TAZ Administrator

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    I've known that to be the case for many years. There is a line of course, and Brogan is known for stepping over it pretty consistently.
     
  15. The Sandman

    The Sandman Administrator

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    Okay, so I went back to look at the thread in question again...

    It's only 5 posts long. In the first post, the OP makes a suggestion. Perhaps it's a bit overstated, perhaps not. Yes, the information is readily available elsewhere but his point was that it was not made clear on the download page, and maybe it should be.

    Brogan's reply is factually correct. It also *seems* to indicate some annoyance with the OP, as evidenced by the use of bold text similar to that used in the first post, and the (never appreciated on forums) suggestion that he should have searched for the answer instead of asking/commenting. There is also implied disregard for the OP's suggestion when Brogan states "That has been made clear enough over the years, in tickets, posts, FAQs, etc."..

    At this point I think we're still okay though... maybe I'm reading something into it that isn't there.

    Third post... Kevin correctly and succinctly (and without any evidence of annoyance) points out that this information is also available in the Manual.

    Still good.

    But then without any further posting by the OP Brogan feels the need to add a sarcastic zinger "It's almost like we didn't assume that people knew that".

    At this point it's clear that the perception of annoyance and disdain from the staff was real and not imagined.

    Finally, the OP replies to Brogan, and it seems that it was this zinger post from Brogan that was most telling for him as well. It's almost like we assume that support staff shouldn't be disdainful or sarcastic towards their customers.
     
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  16. Anton Chigurh

    Anton Chigurh Ultimate Badass

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    And it's not a cultural barrier, phrasing, or any other excuse. It's intentional, in your face snobbery at best. Sarcastic, dismissive disdain at worst. And again, not the first such instance. It is a pattern of behavior.
     
  17. Klaatu

    Klaatu Fan

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    I interacted with vBulletin support a few times over the years and the experiences were always excellent. I interacted with XenForo support once and the experience was terrible. I got the same "how can you be so stupid to even ask that question" type of reply. It was the first and last time I ever asked anything there.

    I understand people can get annoyed for getting the same questions over and over, but that's not excuse to be unprofessional or an a-hole.
     
  18. Gladius

    Gladius Enthusiast

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    Oh, don't think that there wasn't a guy much worse than Brogan over at IB, you just had the good fortune of not encountering him. :D

    Brogan's too valuable to lose, because if he goes, he also pulls all of his content, which would be a huge loss because he's contributed a lot and many customers rely on it. IIRC that's what happened a few years ago and they brought him back pretty fast. Which, I expect, is the reason that he gets away with more than a regular support staff member would. In any organization, it's always a huge pain in the ass when you have an employee that you're afraid of letting go because you can't easily replace them or their work. In larger companies where individual customers are not really valued or listened to, such staff get to lord it over with impunity. But in smaller organizations that actually (have to) care about customers, you can feel that the management and other staff are not happy with the situation, but keep swallowing it down through gritted teeth because they just don't have a viable alternative.
     
  19. WildNeonSins

    WildNeonSins Aspirant

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    We're not a race but a nationality.
     
  20. Lisa

    Lisa Chaotically Proportional

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    Shhhhhh .... we're a race now. I decided ;)
     
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