Why an Internet Brands / Xenforo deal makes sense to both parties

Discussion in 'Forum Software' started by Digital Doctor, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

    Any addon merchant for whom licences issued are for individual sites may encode them in the first place.

    I presume that for big addons (like galleries, or anything meningful enough to deserve a copyright footer notice), branding removal may be charged for independantly from the base addon. Branding removal is typically site specific.
  2. cheat_master30

    cheat_master30 Moderator

    In theory I agree with you, but in practice the chances of them selling to Internet Brands (or Internet Brands honouring any deal to keep XenForo independent) are non existent.

    The idea just doesn't make sense for either IB or XenForo Ltd given their past experiences with each other.
  3. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Administrator

    it seems that you miss the meaning of this:
    vb3.9 is not like vb3. Its a special edition of vbulletin which works well for their sites. vb3/4 dying or not has no effect on their 2000 sites.
  4. TrixieTang

    TrixieTang Politically Incorrect

    XF customers who came from vB do not ever want to see IB getting involved in any way. This would be a great way for XF to lose their customer base and nothing more... plenty of people would immediately bail if IB ever became somehow involved in XF's development or ownership.
  5. doubt

    doubt Tazmanian

    I'm not so sure about that.
    That plenty of people are only a small percentage of the VB users.
  6. GTB

    GTB Tazmanian

    Yep, I agree and think many that went to XF from vB would just bail over again to another forum software like IPB if something like this ever happened. It wouldn't end well for XenForo...
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  7. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Adherent

    Well hang on for a second..

    Nothing is preventing IB from selling their entire vBulletin unit to another entity...maybe like XenForo. Who knows.
  8. Optic

    Optic Enthusiast


    After that lengthy 1 and a half year lawsuit in the US and UK, I SERIOUSLY doubt it would be in either XF or IB's best interests to have a future working relationship. After that confidential settlement, I'm sure XF would much rather pave their own path to success, on their own terms.

    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  9. insaneadmin

    insaneadmin Enthusiast

    If this happened I would be torn about whether to support it or not.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  10. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

    No currently functioning forummaker business could likely benefit from that. The liabilitities owed exceed exceed the earning potential.

    For every disgruntled ex-vB user XF acquires, they earn a minimum 140$ per customer, at a cost of 0$ to them. They can patiently wait for people to come at their pace.
    If they bought vBS, they would end paying to acquire the same disgruntled customers, at a cost much greater than 0$ each. XF is still averse to even symbolic discounts, so what makes you think it could stomach the idea of spending up to or even more than 40$ per customer acquired, when it could simply wait for the low-hanging fruit ?
  11. GoingRight

    GoingRight Participant

    I believe a lot of XF fans do not like IB.
  12. GTB

    GTB Tazmanian

    I think after, what, 5-6 years has past now? That XenForo has already got just about all the vBulletin users they are likely to get on mass leaving. Now it's more about them getting users from elsewhere. They certainly are no longer in the same position as they was that 1st and 2nd year when people was flocking away from vB to xF. Which was why you saw the change settle down in stats before, no longer showing XenForo on this steady climb - it has since halted past two years now that the vB users have stopped flooding in for them.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  13. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

    Decreasing sales are a blessing in disguise when you think about it, renewals can be lived off even during periods of conservative maintainance. XF's operating costs are surely far lower than vBS', on top of its saner economic management.

    Consider IPS. They could've gone succesfully chased after users of rival scripts until every last disgruntled one flocked to their software, and yet they havent. Their apparent logic (that would apply to XF too), is that increasing their pool of customers beyond control would be unwise, require expanding their workforce and add costs only ever-increasing expansion of the customer pool could offset.
    Once the customer pool reaches critical mass, it makes sense to focus on increasing the 'average revenue per customer' past the initial software acquisition cost. If you can manage to earn more from renewals than from new licence sales, it would become viable to even reduce your customer pool, since it would decrease operating costs without costing you profitability.
  14. GTB

    GTB Tazmanian

    XenForo was lucky because it was Kier and Mike (ex vBulletin devs) who started XenForo. It's clear to see why all the vBulletin users moved to XenForo on mass and not IPS or WBB at the time, simply because of that. I'm pretty sure IPS would have loved to have got all the vB users flocking XF way back then. But that was never going to happen, not at that particular time after Kier and Mike started XF as ex devs from vB, plus the IB vs XF court case gained XF a lot of sympathy and support from ex vB users going joining them .
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
  15. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Adherent

    I can tell you that sympathy had nothing to do with my purchase of XenForo. It came down to a simple business decision: Invest into a failing forum application, or take a calculated risk with two core developers who've you know for several years with a brand new platform.
  16. Digital Doctor

    Digital Doctor Tazmanian

    The Day H3LL ...

  17. Sal Collaziano

    Sal Collaziano Womanizer

    I feel there are still PLENTY of vBulletin admins that'll be switching to XenForo in the not too distant future. Some will go to Invision Board as well but IPB has more of a learning curve. So I feel most people who leave vBulletin will migrate to XF over IPB. There's no good upgrade path from vBulletin. Hardly anyone really/actually switched from VB to XF. Not yet. But they will. So that's all still ahead...

    Internet Brands does not need new forum software. As already mentioned, they're using a custom version of VB3 that nobody else has access to. They will continue to use, update, enhance this now in-house solution for their own forum communities. They have no need for XF or anybody else.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on some type of cloud platform that will allow them to connect all their databases to ONE single installation of the software to run all their communities. That way they could upgrade, enhance and run everything from one installation.

    That being said, in my opinion - if IB bought XF, we'd be looking at XF2 named VB6.
  18. Tatl

    Tatl Developer

    I'm of the opinion that Internet Brands purchased vBulletin not for profit, but to sabotage their competition. IB makes their money on ad revenue from their sites, so by completely decimating the most popular forum software they make it more difficult for competing communities to start up and be successful.

    I'm surprised they didn't try to purchase IPS and do the same there.
  19. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

    Maybe IB could've chased this when all IPS had was puny IPB 2.3, but today's realities are different.

    For all the criticism it (still) receives, IPS is too well managed for a mere customer like IB with nothing to bring to the equation to acquire it. Its development arm progresses unimpeded by legacy concerns, the rate of subscription/renewals is off the charts compared to vB's (and likely even Xenforo's), and with its well-functioning SaaS hosting the minimum valuation would bleed even IB dry, nevermind a serious offer.
  20. Horizon

    Horizon Participant

    All the paid forum software companies should merge and bring their merged software into the 21st century to take on Facebook, Twitter et all.
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