What It will take to make forums relevant

Discussion in 'Managing an Online Community' started by fixer, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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    Advanced Member locator with Notifications
    * When a new member joins with in X amount or distance of me i want notified
    * Forced GEOip location on registration - NO OPT OUT
    * Online Communities must create Offline Resources

    Real Mobile Push
    *
    no subscription service
    * no 3rd party
    * self hosted

    OMMITED - INPROCESS

    Earned advertising
    *
    a system where vendors and manufacturers earn and retain advertising space based on content contributions on the forums
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  2. MarkFL

    MarkFL La Villa Strangiato

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    Forums didn't become irrelevant, internet users did. :)
     
  3. Pete

    Pete Flavours of Forums Forever

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    And none of your requirements are relevant to my forum niche.
     
  4. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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    sure
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  5. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

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    Well, the topic was started with a question. This is the part where you contribute your answer

    Also, hard to imagine a forum that wouldn't realize any benefit from mobile push. Even if not your primary audience or user, it shouldn't hurt traffic to send out certain notifications. I really think this is one of the bigger inhibitors we face. Too bad Tapatalk is cancer.
     
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  6. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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  7. Nev_Dull

    Nev_Dull Anachronism

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    My answer: Nothing. I've seen no evidence to suggest forums are not relevant.
     
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  8. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

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    Live interaction, which includes PUSH notifications, group interaction and live refreshing. Thats simply what people are used to and expect. I regularly get requests to ask if members can post links to Facebook, whatasapp groups, chat sites or discord, because forums do not cater to discussion that require immediate response. So we miss out on discussions on the very topics the forum was created for. The issue is that the internet user has changed, as well as the devices. Forums are still too desktop focussed, not leveraging mobile functionality like PUSH, location, events, video & photo, sharing, nor providing the interactive experience that is expected by the user.

    I'm convinced that this will change, but it will be very slow and by the time it has happened the internet has already changed disruptively.
     
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  9. Pete

    Pete Flavours of Forums Forever

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    No, the topic was started with a series of assertions on what is required for relevancy, and the implicit basis of the OP is right and anyone daring to challenge is wrong.

    I’ve also explained at length repeatedly why forum apps are not going to happen any time soon, but I guess real life getting in the way is irrelevant of a good fantasy.
     
  10. mysiteguy

    mysiteguy Devotee

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    Notification of when a member near you joins has serious privacy implications for many people.
     
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  11. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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    it's about networking a good percent of legit niche forums operate with real life clubs and chapters
     
  12. fixer

    fixer I'm In My Prime

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    What's your problem anyway? You continue to go out of your way to slander me. If you think you can bully me you are sadly mistaken as i will take it to a whole new level you don't want to be a part of , so just back off and save us both the trouble.
     
  13. Destroy Repeat

    Destroy Repeat DestroyRepeat.com

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    It can. It's just that someone needs to come up with a "aha" idea for it. Tapatalk does exactly what the OP is asking, but it's third party. The forum needs to be a native app, as in, not an afterthought. XF1 & 2 is getting closer, and closer to that ideal. However, most people want that "native app" feel, that's why people don't care for xenForo's mobile view. I disagree with that notion, but that's how people think.
     
  14. Joel R

    Joel R Fan

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    Totally and 100% agree. Modern users expect immediate and live feedback. They want to see live updates as they happen. Forums are very outdated in that regard.
     
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  15. Destroy Repeat

    Destroy Repeat DestroyRepeat.com

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    Problem is, it bogs down the server. Not many sites can handle that kind of thing. Facebook's solution to that very problem isn't solved by crons, it's solved by a different call to the server.
     
  16. Nev_Dull

    Nev_Dull Anachronism

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    I agree also. I also think it's wrong. What users want is often not what is needed.

    I see no point in trying to make forums work like facebook. That already exists. Why is it difficult to accept a forum as a place where time and thought are more important than instant notification and response? We need to give up the idea that forums can be made into something that will pull people from facebook. Forums have always excelled as a place to explore a single topic in depth and detail, and to offer like-minded people a place to read, share, and discuss their thoughts, opinions, and ideas on that topic over a long period.

    Forum software really does need a lot of work but not to make it something it isn't meant to be.
     
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  17. Destroy Repeat

    Destroy Repeat DestroyRepeat.com

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    I agree with everything you said, especially bolded. The problem is, the majority of people have become so lazy, that Facebook change the way we communicate. It's no longer about long drawn-out conversations, but rather than these stupid one-liners. Some can make long discussions, but I mean, we're talking about half of the world here - which Facebook has a threshold on.

    A lot of the tech that are on facebook can't really be done on self-hosted sites by newbies. When I say "newbies" I mean people who don't know how to self-host their sites. Intermediate, or expert folks like yourself and me are the ones who understand how servers work, and why something can't be done.

    xenForo were trying to do some things that facebook currently does, but it has to adhere to some standards by server companies. If you don't have mysql or php, then you can't host a forum. Put it that way. The way facebook functions is very customized, and very proprietary. It's not something you can just copy and paste on your site. You'd have to know code. XF2 does some things better, but it's not at the stage where Kier can say, "we can do live updates now." By that I mean, replies are real-time, replies are instant, notifications are instant, and whatnot.
     
  18. mysiteguy

    mysiteguy Devotee

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    You're set on arguing with anyone who disagrees, lol. Perhaps rename the topic "what it will take to make MY forum relevant", because of the 6 I have and the several I manage for clients... not one of them would touch such a feature. That, along with forced GeoIP beyond perhaps making sure there's compliance with GDPR, especially in the current day atmosphere of privacy concerns.
     
  19. Pete

    Pete Flavours of Forums Forever

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    No, it can't. Either you have one app per forum platform, or you have one app that implements the bare minimum lowest common denominator across the platforms, because that's the only way it can work.

    And people that are better funded and better resourced than the entirety of the forum market put together can't get this stuff right. I keep pointing to Moodle - it's an open source platform used worldwide, where it has multiple conferences per year attended by hundreds of delegates, with a core team of dozens of developers with support ecosystems in the form of the Moodle partner network, where for a number of the partners, you're talking $100 per HOUR of their time just to get out of bed to build you something.

    And they're flailing at trying to deliver a single app for a platform that actually works properly, even just for Moodle out of the box, let alone Moodle with extensions. The entire forum market is considerably smaller. It might work out, but honestly I'm not convinced.

    It's not that difficult a concept, especially if the member base is actually expecting more substance than two line replies, because they're expecting to have paragraphs and paragraphs to reply to.
     
  20. Destroy Repeat

    Destroy Repeat DestroyRepeat.com

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    Yes, it can. :blueyup: Tapatalk is doing it. The problem is, it works off a forum platform, rather than it's own service. If you know code, you can do anything you put your mind to. The problem really boils down to "Do forum owners want a forum platform specifically designed for mobile users?" My answer would be no. But what I DO want, is an app that shows a forum natively. Now, you can't do that without designing the forum explicitly for mobile viewing. And then, if you want a desktop site, you would have to adhere that particular "container" (template) to the design philosophy that the mobile site has.

    xenForo's mobile view is very close to what we all really want, but most people like the "app" feel. That's where the problem really lies. So, in order for that particular person (coder) to sell a native app for forums, he has to target mobile users only. Nothing else.
    The problem isn't really the "how much money it takes to get things right," or the code, or whatever. vBulletin can't get it right because they're a bunch of stupid idiots, frankly. Tapatalk does the whole "native app" feel correctly, the problem is, according to many people, the site/business scrapes "information" from your server/database. Forum Runner was another option, but it's one of those lesser-known forum apps. One of these days, someone is going to come up with a better solution than these.
    Basically, laziness.

    If you disagree. That's fine. It's your opinion. I'll just agree to disagree. Simple as that.
     
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