*Warning: Disturbing/NSFW* Conflicted, upsetting. Maybe it's someone else, but I don't think so.

Discussion in 'Forum Software' started by punchbowl, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

    4,192
    912
    +1,721
    The press is right about as often as a broken clock. The law makes no distinction between lewd images and filming and cartoon images and animation. It's a messed up law. If cartoons weren't made illegal then we'd know who was actually looking at child porn and who wasn't... Or had they even made it a seperate (less serious) offense, we could make the distinction of who was who. But no- they worded it so there was no distinction between cartoon images and real photos/videos so the only people who will ever really know are those who saw the images- presumably the accused and the prosecutors, not even sure if the judge would see them.
     
  2. voodoochill

    voodoochill Aspirant

    25
    8
    +16
    Which is twice a day.

    If they are wrong then they should be sued.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  3. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    5,282
    1,417
    +2,087
    You think its easy to sue do you want to put attention on yourself becuase you are going against a newspaper.
     
  4. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

    4,192
    912
    +1,721
    The news would probably say they reported what the law forbids, and they did, because the law is so stupid. There is no open and shut case here, no one is going to sue- hell half the people here already think he's a child molestor, he wouldn't stand a chance in court. In the real world you can't sue everyone who wrongs you.
     
  5. doubt

    doubt Tazmanian

    4,743
    562
    +2,023
    It's possible to do: Rebel Wilson awarded $4.5m in damages over defamatory magazine articles

    But have to have deep pockets for it:
    Hollywood celebrity Rebel Wilson has been ordered to repay her multimillion-dollar payout to the magazine publisher that defamed her.

     
  6. voodoochill

    voodoochill Aspirant

    25
    8
    +16
    If you have a good case, ie you were only guilty of cartoons but they reported that you took photos and videos of real children, and that was not true, then they would probably settle out of course and retract/aplogise. But only if you can prove your case.
     
  7. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    5,282
    1,417
    +2,087
    Again you are going against news media outlets so the story will break with more negative news against you as person. Cartoons or not in the UK there is no distinction between real images or cartoon or drawings, so the news can say child porn and you will lose because the law is clear between the two.
     
  8. voodoochill

    voodoochill Aspirant

    25
    8
    +16
    I'm not disputing that at all, I'm just talking about this car where the news explicitly mentions creating or allowing the creation of images and video. It doesn't just say "child porn" which I agree would cover cartoons and so not be actionable if that is all it was.

    All I'm saying is that if it was me and I was looking at what I considered art, that until last year was actually legal, and that is what I pleaded guilty to under a new law, then I would be outraged and go after anyone saying it was something that people in general would consider a lot more sinister and evil.

    In that case I think it's reasonable to take action if what you are claiming is for a retraction, clarification and apology. I'm convinced they would settle, especially if you aren't going after financial compensation and just clearing your name - they have nothing to lose, they've already made their revenue from the article and I'm sure would prefer that kind go settlemeant than going to court.

    But it is speculation, I may be wrong - it has been known.
     
  9. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

    4,192
    912
    +1,721
    You can say it but frankly I don't believe you. I hope you are never in a circumstance where you or a loved on is accused of a real crime, and maybe you will be that 1 in a thousand person who would sue the newspapers, but in the real world normal people (those not independently wealthy) don't sue newspapers- especially when they have pled guilty to a crime most people don't ever forgive or forget. You just want to move on with your life and leave it all in the past. You want less attention, not more by suing the news.
     
  10. voodoochill

    voodoochill Aspirant

    25
    8
    +16
    Thank you for those kind words.
     
  11. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

    4,192
    912
    +1,721
    I'm being honest. Many people (including myself) will sometimes say things they think they would do in a given situation, but having never been in the actual situation can't be certain what they would actually do. I believe you think you would sue, but I honestly don't believe you would. If you've already pled guilty to a crime, any crime, there isn't much to save by arguing over details. You're guilty.
     
  12. Slavik

    Slavik Participant

    61
    68
    +116
    All the evidence will be under the control of the CPS/Police. Access as such for a civil case will be near on, if not impossible to prove.
     
  13. Anton Chigurh

    Anton Chigurh Ultimate Badass

    1,417
    277
    +996
    It's kind of humorous that in a thread full of repeated unkindness, dishonesty, self-righteous hyperbole, outright lies, slanderous accusations and innuendo, that something so rare and precious as upright honesty would offend anyone.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  14. Kaelon

    Kaelon Enthusiast

    233
    113
    +68
    A couple thoughts here:
    1. This is both incredibly disheartening and extremely revolting news.

    2. For those of you trying to figure out how to take the news and listening to the convicted defendant's explanation, I subscribe generally to Occum's Razor -- that the simplest explanation tends to be the truest here. So, in light of that, I just ask myself: "Which is more likely? That child pornography, including videos and images depicting real human children involved in sex acts, was found on their computers, like the news reports and case filings state? Or, that as the defendant explains a technical legality under Scottish Law criminalized the hentai porn that they had downloaded previously and resulted in both the confiscation of their computers and the ongoing digital monitoring of their activities for the next three years, and that somehow the news and case filings erroneously included a broader definition rather than this relatively limited 2010 law's specific issue?"
    To me, this is pretty cut-and-dry. While I am appreciative of how the legal systems can sometimes overly complicate very simple crimes, and I also recognize that pedophilia is sometimes overly broadened to include non-pedophile behaviors (such as a 19 year old man having an intimate relationship with his 17 year old girlfriend), I believe that the journalism and case filings here are pretty specific and the DragonBytes studio guys are essentially pedophiles.

    I think they should do the entire Internet a favor and completely close up shop and disappear from the scene for the next few years, and if/when they do return, probably do so under a completely new identity. There's no coming back from sexual predation the way that this has come out, and I will never knowingly do business with a pedophile.
     
  15. sanction9

    sanction9 Enthusiast

    189
    38
    +122
    Yeah, what people say they'd do and what they actually do in situations like this are often very different. You hear a lot of people say things like, "I would never plead guilty if I weren't," but I imagine it's a whole lot harder to stand by your principles when you're looking at the very real possibility of spending a third or more of your life behind bars and trying to decide if that's better or worse than having a lot of people thinking you're an a-hole. I'm not sure how many people realize just how broad most laws are written and how easily offense after offense can be piled on to get a person to plead guilty to something. I don't know about Scotland or the UK, but in the US, according to the last stats I read, 94+ percent of felony convictions are the result of plea bargains, many by people who claim to be innocent. Yes, obviously it's debatable how many of them are actually innocent, but when you're talking about a staggering number of people convicted by basically threatening them with every charge law enforcement & prosecutors can dream up, it's not hard to imagine more than a few people being coerced by fear into pleading to whatever, even if they're innocent, if it might allow them some kind of life that's not in a cage - if they're not killed by their fellow inmates while in that cage. No doubt most of the people here talking big about going to prison for their principles would be crying like little babies about as soon as the cell door closed on them.
     
  16. mysiteguy

    mysiteguy Devotee

    2,860
    887
    +2,197
    I think that actually does disfavor. The best outcome is to have the fewest number of innocent people negatively impacted by this as possible. Dragonbyte has been one of the top addon providers, with great product support. The reality is if Dragonbyte closes shop it leaves many past purchasers in a very difficult position if they rely on the addon and a security exploit or another serious problem is found. There are those like myself who have the technical skillset to resolve such things if I get in a bind, so I won't do further business with them, but the majority of Dragonbyte customers can't support the product themselves.

    Their closing down would leave people with few or no choices. Staying open, each customer can make the decision about what is the best course of action for them moving forward.

    Yesterday I talked with another client of mine who uses Dragonbyte products, and their response puts it in perspective. They essentially said that while they are disgusted, they also have a plugin that is necessary for their business and they have over a dozen people employed. People's families depend on some of the larger forums out there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Informative! Informative! x 1
    • List
  17. Arty

    Arty Developer

    34
    23
    +90
    I see many people are talking about dropping Dragonbyte products and I'm worried about it.

    Thing about news articles is they always show only one side of story and often replacing words to imply things that didn't actually happen. Good reporting is very rare, today media chase for ratings by exaggerating things and using clickbait titles. Its not trustworthy. What's worse than bad news reporting is mob mentality of social media and knee jerk reaction based on emotions triggered by one sided reporting.

    Fact is all details are unknown. Court documents are not available to public. That means media has nothing to go on, so articles are based on feelings rather than facts made to trigger emotions and send angry mob of brainless morons after people, which is worst kind of bad reporting.

    Actions should have consequences, but that's for justice system to decide, not to social media mob. Only justice system has access to all facts.

    My opinion is what Philip has posted was the truth because otherwise they'd get serious prison time. Hentai stuff is weird, but not even in same category as what news articles are accusing them. However it has nothing to do with XenForo. It doesn't affect quality of their products. I see no reason to drop Dragonbyte products.

    The only time I encouraged my customers to drop a developer was when certain Vietnamese company has been injecting callbacks in code and was banned for that from XenForo official website. I encouraged to drop their products because I saw actual code, so it was based on facts, not rumours.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  18. voodoochill

    voodoochill Aspirant

    25
    8
    +16
    I find it the nightmare is the abuse, sexualisation and cruelty involved in the child porn industry. That is why it's a nightmare.
     
  19. southernlady

    southernlady Coder/Designer

    2,406
    722
    +189
    As consumers, we have the right to decide who we support. I decided to not deal with them as far as purchasing add ons. But my decision is mine and mine alone. I did pass along this thread to a another XF owner who isn't a member here and if she decides to purchase an add on from them, I will add it for her but what she does is her business, not mine.
     
  20. Featherwing

    Featherwing Neophyte

    6
    8
    +6
    I only discovered this through the forum newsletter where the title caught my eye. This has been horrific to read.

    I am not going to debate the shade of blue that the sky has with anyone here, nor am I going to debate whether either of them are guilty of the offences they've been convicted of. I trust the Courts, otherwise I'm sure Belazor would have mentioned he was appealing his conviction.

    After being a customer of DBtech since 2014, I will not be doing any further business with them at any level.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.