This is goodbye xenforo *sniffsniff*

Discussion in 'XenForo' started by fixer, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. fixer

    fixer “You're a daisy if you do!”

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    Screen Shot 2018-03-30 at 10.14.30 PM.png
    /out
     
  2. Belazor

    Belazor DragonByte Technologies Programming Director

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    k
     
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  3. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

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    Have appreciated your insight into the migrations and how they've gone. It's been interesting to follow.
     
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  4. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

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    Can you elaborate on why you ditched Xenforo?
    I'm sure IPB 4.3's improvements must have looked compelling but I'm curious as to wether specific factors made XF no longer suitable, like reliance on too many unofficial addons for functionalty supposed to be supported by the company.
     
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  5. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

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    Agreed, while the site and your outlook/stance is not in line with mine, following what you have been doing recently has been really informative and your site is definitely looking better for it too tbh. Good luck to you and I will definitely be keeping an eye on how your site progresses over the coming weeks/months/years. :)
     
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  6. fixer

    fixer “You're a daisy if you do!”

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    Story Time

    On March 14th 2007 I built Diesel Bombers on vBulletin 3 software. On Jan 17th 2011 I sold the site to Internet Brands for $85.000.00 part of our contact meant I could not develop a new online community for 5 years.

    When the "real" vb4 ...xf1 came to light , i seen it as the future built for the mobile world, I seen vb3 as end of life for VB which factored into the decision to sell, but I was unable to actively develop on the new platform...at this time IPS was on IB3 and i already had a site running on it (that was in contract that i could continue) , as a matter of fact it was that database that i gave Kier to build a converter with , he asked me ;) . I left that software on IB because it had an arcade with like 3000 games in it and other features that xf never had.

    So i joined Facebook and started some groups... OK a lot of groups, One day in 2016 Facebook deleted all my groups in one fail swoop. (Anti-Firearms) Only weeks after my contract had expired with VB.

    IB3 really never did anything to make me overly excited over this time period, So i started My Militia on xf. and built it up for 2 years , during this time i kept upgrading my old IPS board and even tho it was not as active as MM, it didn't take long to start seeing the tides change. then 4.2 came out and i was like What The.... No Way.... WOW, so i started PGG forum on IPS as facebook was blocking links to MM because of (Anti-Firearms).

    Now running 2 IPS sites and one xf board .... I start to see the cracks in xf , the groups sucked, the links directory sucked and the IPS equivalent was amazing, i seen my active board suffering and my inactive boards having all sorts of features no body was using. I let it ride....

    During the dev period of xf2 i posted many many times the importance to become THE MOBILE PLATFORM FOR FORUMS, because i was behind enemy lines , IPS was accepting me as one of their own.... I kept going across the battlefield and YELLING to xf devs YOU HAVE TO GO MOBILE FIRST! , HEY XF !!! GO MOBILE FIRST!!!! xf2 came out and i just hung my head .....because i knew it was over.

    xf cannot compete with IPS, listen ..... it is not going to happen.

    maybe its the backing money, the coders, the innovation who knows but xf can not stand against IPS as a forum software , if they are developing , clubs and everything else 1st party to try to wow their customers they are 100% wasting their time and the amount of active forums will continue to decrease across the internet as they die.

    IPS is the heavy weight champ, xf needed to shift to light weight class where they can take the market .. the belts just hanging on the ropes for them but they continue to get in the ring with someone they stand no chance of beating.

    IPS does have mobility enhancements , but they are lacking the same as every other forum software. it wont be until every site gets apps and push out the box until forums can have validity on the mobile platform in the future.

    So anyway i waited to see what xf was going to do with xf2 and all the things they were saying were things trying to compete with IPS, nothing was innovative and nothing was mobile oriented, they continue to want to step in the ring with IPS.... so as a victim of circumstance i changed corners. It is not too late for xf but they need to stop focusing on addons and bullcrap that was popular 10 years ago and go full steam ahead and become the go to choice for light weight mobility forum software built for the future. Until then i'm with the champ.
     
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  7. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

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    Apps are not necessary anymore, all browsers support push notifications on desktop and mobile nowadays. It's also one less privacy headache, overzealous permissions are causing data leakage not every site should be fine with.
     
  8. fixer

    fixer “You're a daisy if you do!”

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    Using the facebook app vs using the facebook website on your phone 2 very different experiences
     
  9. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

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    Hmm I'm not so sure I agree with this. Apps will definitely help you punch above the others. Agreed there's the data leakage issues, but having an app is pretty much a priority for any site in order for sustainability and longevity. At least in my opinion. :)
     
  10. LeadCrow

    LeadCrow Apocalypse Admin

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    The full app does more than just allow you to browse the site and account data.

    For all purposes, the 'lite' Facebook app is all people need, and minus the app's permissions (most of which you can disable with no penalty) it's essentially the same experience as the mobile version of Facebook's website, which noone minds or finds lacking.

    Native apps are absolutely not necessary to secure that. Users could simply get in their homescreen and app drawer what's essentially a shortcut 'app' to your website loading in the native browser. All gain, no loss, and it doesnt need persistent maintainance, app store fees and can access all permissions the browser has if needed.
     
  11. fixer

    fixer “You're a daisy if you do!”

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    if i click something and my phone brings up the safari facebook log in page , i feel like i stepped in a mud puddle , close it and bring up the app and browse to where i was trying to go

    this is how we internet
     
  12. Belazor

    Belazor DragonByte Technologies Programming Director

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    Arcade is a dead end these days, the market is more fragmented than the Android market by now :p

    With Flash getting phased out (partially due to mobile), developing an Arcade mod is, as the British say, a brave idea.

    Responsive design is perfectly acceptable in terms of "mobile first". It's superior to building native apps in many ways, and what with yesterday's macOS update bringing 100% of modern browsers into the ServiceWorker fold, push notifications for all is coming as well.

    I have yet to see a convincing argument for why building a dedicated mobile app is better than simply adding the webpage to your phone's home screen. It works perfectly fine for Trakt.tv.

    In which universe does IPS have a marketshare lead over XenForo? Because I have been able to find exactly zero statistics pointing to this being the case. IPS is either irrelevant or significantly behind depending on where you look.

    If you believe the BuiltWith numbers, Discourse has already overtaken IPS. Obviously my experience is entirely anecdotal, but the only IPS site I have ever encountered in my ~20 years using the Internet has been Neowin. I'm disregarding the old Invisionfree sites since I don't believe that service is still in operation. On the flipside, I've encountered more than one Discourse site in the past year alone (Monzo Bank, Kingdom Come: Deliverance).

    Where are you seeing this decline? If you're looking at the BuiltWith numbers, you will find that IPS is declining approximately three times as fast (IPS decreased by 878 sites this quarter, whereas XF decreased by 250 sites).

    If this rate of decline continues, IPS will be dead and gone three times faster than XF will be, so you left a sinking ship for one that has already broken in two , but at least you can still sit on the tip of the ship while it's above water so I guess you have that going for you which is nice :p

    Admittedly I don't watch boxing, but back in the day when I watched a bit of UFC, "champion" meant "the person in the lead", not "the person at the bottom of the barrel" but maybe the terminology is different in boxing.

    IPS does have mobility enhancements , but they are lacking the same as every other forum software. it wont be until every site gets apps and push out the box until forums can have validity on the mobile platform in the future.

    Since IPS has utterly failed to attract 3rd party developers, you think every forum software should stop focusing on 3rd party developers? I'm not sure I understand that logic. Just because IPS failed doesn't mean every other forum software has to fail :)

    XF2 has been out for what, two months or so? It's already close to catching up with IPS in terms of sheer number of 3rd party resources available. You can argue that quantity does not mean quality, and you would be right in saying the number of 1st party add-ons is superior on IPS. If all a community needs is what's available from 1st party developers then sure, IPS is the best choice, but beyond that IPS is getting trounced.

    But hey, you can still say IPS has more addons than vB5, that's a small victory at least :D
     
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  13. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

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    That's wholly dependant on the niche. Our site for example, is not only a forum. Far from it. I used XF as a foundation base and went from there. We'd benefit 100% from a dedicated app. We did have a web wrapper which worked amazingly well, but the dev teams changed it without prior warning and we moved on. Gutted but that's what happened. But again, it's wholly and certainly niche specific. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2018
  14. Belazor

    Belazor DragonByte Technologies Programming Director

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    Sure, but in that case, the argument that forum platforms should focus on mobile apps rather than making their sites available for mobile via Responsive is also moot. If your forum is more than just a forum, and that it's next to impossible to build a Responsive version of all of your functionality, then a stock XF / IPS / vB mobile app (or even Tapatalk) would be equally useless.

    You would need a 100% bespoke mobile app.

    I think the core argument in the post I was responding to would be that 100% of sites would receive a huge benefit from using a native app vs a WebView saved to your homescreen, which I do believe to be false.


    Fillip
     
  15. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

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    Agreed, and I certainly do believe that forums' software have to and must focus on making it fully responsive for mobile phone users. 100%.
    Hmm so so.. correct but also not. Take the TAZ app for example; a great idea. Plus these;
    https://xenforo.com/community/resources/forumapps-native-mobile-apps-for-xenforo.5528/
    Ah what was the other one? TMA or something? They use it now for push notifications.. but they too had an OOTB XF app, to coexist with forums.
    I think coexistence is the main thing; whether an actual app or web wrapper with core notifications and alerts as well as being able to modify it for any additional add-ons etc, then that would most certainly benefit most forum/site owners. In fact I say that with certainty.
     
  16. fixer

    fixer “You're a daisy if you do!”

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    Well so much i disagree with here, where to start....

    First of all if you release a junk car.... think Dodge, people flock with aftermarket accessories to compensate the short comings, however release a BMW and the aftermarket quickly realizes that OEM is better then what they offer and go else where. so your analogy of 3rd parties shows what the core is lacking and does not support that its more capable.

    xf coders and designers are clinging on to anything , that ship has already sunk , you're on a door in the freezing water. Even if IPS is going down there is a chance for divine intervention to save the ship.

    Your numbers of IPS community's failing at higher rates than xf is irrelevant when there are substantial more IPS boards , and your reporting service is not accurate.

    Mobile phones killed ibProArcade , i loved it , it was awesome to have members competing , i tried to re-establish this and failed because mobile is life.

    My vb board had texas holdem , full blown casino where members earned coins by posting and etc , arcade room and even a chess board where we had tournaments , the internet was so much better before cell phones !! im 38 years old and admit it!

    IPS > XF > VB , i know because I've owned and ran all them for many many years. Im no expert but i know when i see quality... you can stick your head up a cows ass or take the butchers word for it.

    There is a lot of knowledge here , many of us have over 10 years in forum development , we need to work together to help each other.
     
  17. Solidus

    Solidus Stupid machines!

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    I like some parts of IPS, but the activity stream is an abomination. Xenforo does it so much better.
     
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  18. fixer

    fixer “You're a daisy if you do!”

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    Wha? :D

    IPS is fully customizable if it sucked its because of you
     
  19. Solidus

    Solidus Stupid machines!

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    Not the information it presents, just the design of it. Xenforo did it better.
     
  20. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer

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    Oh, you're moving away from XF? I had no idea... ;)

    Good luck for the future. I look forward to us proving you wrong on most of the hyperbole you've spouted across the many "I'm leaving XF" threads you've created (in various guises), but until then, farewell, and we hope to welcome you back in the future :tup:
     
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