Struggling really hard to find a reason to go XF2

[CarlosX360]

Everytime I post here, I notice the difference with my forum, that runs on the latest XF2 version.
XF2 is in one word "smoother" then XF1.5.

For example: just put the copied YouTube link in your message - post reply et voila - the video is there.

I agree. But the YouTube embed has been there since the beginning. It's Twitter/Facebook/Instagram, that required a plugin to get the same behavior.

 

[sanction9]

If you add more real-time stuff to it, the server load also increases, meaning it might require you to spend more on hosting.

Also, do forums need to be real time? I've always thought the appeal of a forum was that you could sit and write some content and not feel the need to contribute now now now now now everything must be now omg everything must be now too late you didn't post already and the world has moved on.

Oh wait, that's social media I'm thinking of...

Aside from adding a chat, which you can already do, what more could be added to make a forum "real-time"? Are we talking about using jquery/ajax to auto refresh pages? I mean, other than that, I see most of the "real-time" interaction going down on FB or Twitter, etc., down mainly to the fact that people spend most of their waking lives there. You could hang out on your favorite forum 24/7 too if you wanted.

But seriously, I'm asking because I don't spend a lot of time on social media, so I might be overlooking something. Personally, though, I have a hard time keeping track of conversations on those platforms, everything seems to get buried so quickly, and I often have to resort to Googling to find my way back to a topic. Which is one of the big reasons I'd prefer to converse on forums. (But I suppose if I spent as much time on them as a lot of people, I'd find it easier.)

 

[shinyfirefly]

If you add more real-time stuff to it, the server load also increases, meaning it might require you to spend more on hosting.

Also, do forums need to be real time? I've always thought the appeal of a forum was that you could sit and write some content and not feel the need to contribute now now now now now everything must be now omg everything must be now too late you didn't post already and the world has moved on.

Oh wait, that's social media I'm thinking of...

For ours it does need to be real time. There are typically members fighting over "who posted first" in our community. We rely on breaking news and information and people often come to our site to trace it back to the original post for accuracy. We also have significant member conflict which means we need a lot of moderator tools and it sure would be great to have a working groups feature, but I digress.

After a lot of review, I'm in the same boat as the OP. Many of my add-ons would be broken and right now the development for those just isn't there. I'll give it another year to watch the add-on development and by that time we may even consider revamping with another platform. Jury is still out.

 

[Pete]

sanction9 that's essentially the basis of my argument - the perception is that forums need to be realtime is because they are perceived to need to challenge the current vogue of social media by being more like it, but I continue to argue that the strengths of a forum are that it is exactly not that.

 

[sanction9]

sanction9 that's essentially the basis of my argument - the perception is that forums need to be realtime is because they are perceived to need to challenge the current vogue of social media by being more like it, but I continue to argue that the strengths of a forum are that it is exactly not that.

Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just asking what exactly a forum would do to become more "real-time" if it wanted to. Aside from chat and auto-page refreshes, what could be changed to fit that definition, aside from the format? And I personally don't want a forum to be formatted like FB or Reddit, because I don't like navigating those platforms.

 

[Pete]

The argument is that you could have more realtime styles of notification - e.g. some notification that appeared under your post to let you know while I was typing this that I was typing this, in case you wanted to stay and wait for my message to arrive.

However, that just encourages rapid-pace back and forth messaging, not the style of longer-form responses that forums excel at delivering.

 

[CarlosX360]

I remember during the height of vBulletin's rise, I saw some plugins that allowed for "live updates," but even the plugin had some errors that needed to be fixed, and improved on. When I was on a Modern Warfare 2 website, I loved it. The problem is, as I understand it, it needed better background tasks. I'm guessing it's cronjobs. I don't know how Facebook accomplishes it by replying and then it just pop up. Just like that, instantaneously. I too, don't like the facebook "format." I like forums the way it is. It just needs to behave better. xenForo 2 is doing this better, but I think it could do more to help that feeling of "live update!" (If you know what I mean...)

 

[Alpha1]

I'm pretty happy that Xon solved this for xenforo 2 with his Live Content addon.
https://xenforo.com/community/resources/live-content.6381/

That addon is actually one of the more compelling arguments to upgrade.
I'm pretty confident that this addon will be expanded to other functions and content types.

 

[sbjsbj]

Yes, with the core code stabilizing, I can only see more "goodies" into the base code. They've done what I would expect any package developer to do - give me a good solid updated base that is stable - then start putting the sugary goodness into it.

2 years past since we have seen the first XF2 screenshots. And considering the beta of 2.0 was released in autumn 2016, and speculating we will see 2.1 in this year, it will be 2 years since then. So as you say the base code should be stable and ready to go as it can be.

We "only" need the sugary goodies now. Everything and everyone is ready. No excuses.

 

[djbaxter]

2 years past since we have seen the first XF2 screenshots. And considering the beta of 2.0 was released in autumn 2016, and speculating we will see 2.1 in this year, it will be 2 years since then. So as you say the base code should be stable and ready to go as it can be.

We "only" need the sugary goodies now. Everything and everyone is ready. No excuses.

Do you want it fast?

Or do you want it right?

In latter years, vBulletin has opted for fast in releasing their so-called Gold versions - and then spent the next few years trying to fix the mess.

I appreciate that Xenforo is NOT following that model.

 

[sbjsbj]

Notice I said stabilizing... not stable. There are still 4 pages of bug reports outstanding with a few tagged as confirmed and some awaiting feedback.

For me, as I've said before, until ShowCase is XF 2.x compatible I have no reason to move forward. I'm sure there are several more in a similar boat.

Well, it is just nitpicking at this stage as the core is stable and can be run in any production environment. But sure, let's don't forget those open bug reports in the back of our minds.

As for ShowCase. From what I read he already is running his sports addon on his site. Which means we can assume that his other addons, such as ShowCase, which should have high priority, should see a beta release soonish. Maybe like this autumn. I am speculating of course but it looks good. Everyone is waiting for that. It seems that both XF 2.1 and Showcase will be released in the same period. But of course it then could mean a delay for Showcase to make it compatible with 2.1 as it is a major update and we expect huge changes and new things.

 

[sbjsbj]

Do you want it fast?

Or do you want it right?

In latter years, vBulletin has opted for fast in releasing their so-called Gold versions - and then spent the next few years trying to fix the mess.

I appreciate that Xenforo is NOT following that model.

They declared working on 2.0 about 4 years ago. I wouldn't consider it being "fast". And again, almost 2 years hast past since we have seen 2.0.

I am not sure what of this can be considered as fast. But I agree with you of course.

But now we can expect it being "right", right?

You also say that they are not following that model. Which means everything and everyone are set up correctly. So we can have it "right". No more excuses or anything, we just want it right.

 

[Steve]

2 years past since we have seen the first XF2 screenshots. And considering the beta of 2.0 was released in autumn 2016, and speculating we will see 2.1 in this year, it will be 2 years since then. So as you say the base code should be stable and ready to go as it can be.

We "only" need the sugary goodies now. Everything and everyone is ready. No excuses.

Beta was released Sept 2017, you must be thinking of the development board they had installed to gather feedback and testing.

I think if people have a big problem with how quickly updates come they should probably look elsewhere for a faster developed less stable platform. In nearly 4 years we’ve been hearing the same complaints.

The “excuses” are it takes time, I’m not worried, pressed or whatever for XF 2.1. Why everyone thinks they need this still doesn’t make sense considering nothing has been said what is coming (whoops now I’ve gone and derailed this thread and it will be all about a roadmap)...

 

[sbjsbj]

Beta was released Sept 2017, you must be thinking of the development board they had installed to gather feedback and testing.

Jul 30, 2014
#1
As XenForo 1.4 nears release, the time has come to shift our primary development focus to a brand new version, which will become XenForo 2.0.
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/xenforo-2-0-development-updates.113262/#post-1044320

and

Aug 11, 2016
#5
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/xenforo-2-0-development-updates.113262/#post-1088612

And after those screenshots 3 months later the demo board was launched.

I think if people have a big problem with how quickly updates come they should probably look elsewhere for a faster developed less stable platform. In nearly 4 years we’ve been hearing the same complaints.

That is kind of admitting it, isn't it? If you have been hearing those complaints for 4 years and the same ones, what does this mean? Maaaybe a core of truth?

And, please, what kind of an point is it, to say "look elsewhere"? So we shouldn't want that the product gets better? And should whorship it or what?
There are times to compliment and talk about the positives, which I do many times and then there are times to talk about the bad things. At least from my perception.

Your fan-boyish answer is no help.

The “excuses” are it takes time, I’m not worried, pressed or whatever for XF 2.1. Why everyone thinks they need this still doesn’t make sense considering nothing has been said what is coming (whoops now I’ve gone and derailed this thread and it will be all about a roadmap)...

Again, benefit of the doubt goes to them. It takes time, granted. But one day we will see 2.1 and then we will see the part of "takes time". We will see if that was an excuse to delay and hold the conversation or if that was legitemately said.

I think for a healthy good product, one need to list both the positive and negative aspects. We all want the best for XF.

There is a proverb/saying in my culture: "you need to be cruel to be kind". It means a friend will tell you about your faults in order to help you.

 

[Kevin]

"you need to be cruel to be kind".

But only in the right measure, it's a very good sign.

 

[djbaxter]

If you have been hearing those complaints for 4 years and the same ones, what does this mean? Maaaybe a core of truth?

And, please, what kind of an point is it, to say "look elsewhere"? So we shouldn't want that the product gets better? And should whorship it or what?
There are times to compliment and talk about the positives, which I do many times and then there are times to talk about the bad things. At least from my perception.

Your fan-boyish answer is no help.

I must respectfully disagree. I really do not want to see pressure on the developers to rush the process. I've been at this forum business for a long time and I've seen that model before and how frustrating it is for the end user (i.e., forum owners who put out the cash for the product.

One of the things I appreciate about Xenforo is that they have NOT adopted that model or given in to pressure to adopt it. Get it right and let that take however long it takes.

I'll go back to what I posted earlier:

Do you want it fast?

Or do you want it right?

In latter years, vBulletin has opted for fast in releasing their so-called Gold versions - and then spent the next few years trying to fix the mess.

I appreciate that Xenforo is NOT following that model.

 

[sbjsbj]

djbaxter

I understand you and I agree with you. Just in what world did I make the impression of trying to make them rush the process? How is it rushing, again, when they announced 4 years ago XF2 and we are talking about our expectation for 2.1 after 4 years?

I honestly don't get how one can see this as "pressuring" or "making the devs rush the process". Like, how much more time has to pass so we can talk about these things? Or should we stay as fanboys and never talk about these things?

I mean, your post is heavily ironic. You criticise vB for not doing the right thing and you see no problem in criticising them (btw. I also agree with you on what you said about vB, but that is besides the point).
But if I do the same and criticise XF, then this makes me an evil?

I think enough time has passed, that we can have a healthy discussion about our expectations and about the progress being made. We still don't know what kind of progress is being made and what kind of development will come upon us. Maybe they will sweep us off our feet and I will gladly eat my words. Maybe they won't.

But as 2.1 is officially on the way, isn't it normal and okay to talk about it? With the good sides and bad sides?

 

[CarlosX360]

That is kind of admitting it, isn't it? If you have been hearing those complaints for 4 years and the same ones, what does this mean? Maaaybe a core of truth?

No, it isn't. xenForo from the day it launched, has always been this way. Some ideas were pushed to the side, and some were prioritized so they can make fixes where they can.

And, please, what kind of an point is it, to say "look elsewhere"? So we shouldn't want that the product gets better? And should whorship it or what?
There are times to compliment and talk about the positives, which I do many times and then there are times to talk about the bad things. At least from my perception.

He's saying "look elsewhere" if you want ****ty software updates. vB4/vB5 has shipped with crappy patch updates. If you didn't pay attention, what you were quoting, was actually a jab at vBulletin. *snorts* You got it all wrong.

Your fan-boyish answer is no help.

It's not fanboyism. You're dealing with admins who know what's best. If you can't take their feedback on how forum software should be developed, then you are in the wrong place, bub. Most of [TAZ] have been running forums since the turn of the century.

 

[sbjsbj]

No, it isn't. xenForo from the day it launched, has always been this way. Some ideas were pushed to the side, and some were prioritized so they can make fixes where they can.

I know.

He's saying "look elsewhere" if you want ****ty software updates. vB4/vB5 has shipped with crappy patch updates. If you didn't pay attention, what you were quoting, was actually a jab at vBulletin. *snorts* You got it all wrong.

I know it was a jab at vB, but I think you don't understand how a debate works.

If I say you suck and explain why you do and lay a ground why I think like that, then telling me that the person next to you also sucks, doesn't help your case at all.

Pointing the finger to someone else doesn't solve the issues I pointed at you. And if I talk about the issues of XF, telling me that the company xyz has issues, doesn't help your case. You should understand basic debating techniques before you respond in this arrogant manner.

It's not fanboyism. You're dealing with admins who know what's best. If you can't take their feedback on how forum software should be developed, then you are in the wrong place, bub. Most of [TAZ] have been running forums since the turn of the century.

Specially if you talk this way, I will gladly show your place as you have no idea how to discuss things. 2 decades using and running forums but you still don't know how to make points and counterpoints.

 

[djbaxter]

djbaxterI understand you and I agree with you. Just in what world did I make the impression of trying to make them rush the process? How is it rushing, again, when they announced 4 years ago XF2 and we are talking about our expectation for 2.1 after 4 years?

You continue to take liberties with the timeline.

Beta was released Sept 2017, you must be thinking of the development board they had installed to gather feedback and testing.

So it's been 2 years, not 4. And XF2 has been released relatively recently. So let's be clear - and honest: You've hardly been waiting for 2.1 for 4 years... more like a few months.

I honestly don't get how one can see this as "pressuring" or "making the devs rush the process". Like, how much more time has to past so we can talk about these things? Or should we stay as fanboys and never talk about these things?

I mean, your post is heavily ironic. You criticise vB for not doing the right thing and you see no problem in criticising them (btw. I also agree with you on what you said about vB, but that is besides the point).

But if I do the same and criticise XF, then this makes me an evil?

No, it doesn't make you evil. It does make you unreasonable and disingenuous though, in my opinion, especially when you stretch the truth to suit your argument (see above).