Struggling really hard to find a reason to go XF2

Discussion in 'XenForo' started by Kentaurus, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated ass-hat

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    Most active participants on XF have heard of them...
    And many sites actively utilize one or the other.
    Classic example is TAZ.
    A 69 page discussion thread over on XF indicates that it does have a strong interest.
    A 31 page support discussion node over on the Bob's official site indicates a fairly high interest and requests for assistance (I quit counting at 128 distinctive usernames). I had 3 copies myself that I used (still using one) and was not an active participant on his official support site - as are many others I am sure.
    A 24 page "closed" suggestion node indicates a fairly high interest - especially when you see that 80+ distinctive usernames have posted suggestions.

    There are still many add-ons that sites classify as "required" that have not been ported to XF 2. Until those are, most will remain on XF 1.x line. Not everybody found a need to rush like lemmings to simply upgrade to XF 2.0 because it was "the new Coke".
     
  2. doubt

    doubt Tazmanian

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    The example who never heard of them before reading about them on TAZ is me.
    I wasn't tempted to buy them because TAZ has them.
    Should they be updated to XF2 I still wouldn't be tempted to purchase them.
     
  3. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

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    Custom addons and styles will incur costs for upgrade.
    Then there is the issue of changing the site format and shock to the community.
    Of course there is the issue of vital rock solid addons like those from Bob and Xon for example.These need to be updated and this will take time.
    Then there is the issue that some addons by other developers took years to become somewhat stable and are now newly released for XF2. It will take years before those reach the same level. I'm not too excited on going through that again.

    So there must be something really compelling in XF2.1 for me to start working towards an upgrade.
     
  4. Kentaurus

    Kentaurus Adherent

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    Could you imagine if the update had gone different ?

    2.0 New features
    1. Infinite scroll optionally enabled in all pages for user engagement, no more pagination
    2. Newsfeed auto-refreshes, you can include that as a widget in multiple places, curated to your liked, subscribed and browsed content
    3. Canned responses let you welcome your members, and remind them to visit different threads
    4. Manage your social in one place, optional syndication of content to multiple destinations
    5. Ability to aggregate mailings lists for daily/weekly/monthly distribution, compliant with European law
    6. CMS/Blogs/Calendar/Groups/Classified as optional add-ons available for purchase
    7. (Beta) ML framework for common tasks, when creating a thread similar threads would be suggested, when you do private messages it will auto-suggest recipients, when you create forums it will suggest permissions based on your behavior .. and more, the algorithm learns as you keep adding more content

    I would've updated the next day.

    Instead we got ... the BD widget we already had, the Nodes as Tabs we already had, and as I was told in this discussion you can now create a Thread from the homepage.

    Maybe I'm wishing for too much and I'm delusional :) A man can just dream.
     
  5. Matthew S

    Matthew S Adherent

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    And again, 2.0 was always targeted as a feature parity release with 1.5. Those small extras were a small bonus, not the main game.
     
  6. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated ass-hat

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    Actually there were more new features present in the XF 2.0 upgrade than what I expected. All I expected was what was stated - current functionality with a recoding of the base code. The expectation of "lots of goodies" was from the user base and was not really reasonable based upon what the developers stated... but that's pretty much normal. People don't pay attention to what is actually said, they hear what they want/expect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  7. sbjsbj

    sbjsbj Enthusiast

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    I totally agree with both of you.
    But is the "main game" now on? Is the expectation of "lots of goodies" now reasonable?
    With "now" I mean for the 2.1 version.

    My fear is that after so much delay (the announcement for 2.0 was 4 years ago if I remember correctly) and after "we never promised sth. for 2.0" that the upcoming release of 2.1 will be a huge disappointment considering all of these things. It is just speculation, I don't know more than anyone else, just if I extrapolate all of these things, I can't be optimistic at all.

    Still XF is the best forum software in my opinion, just it seems that they rely too much on their base reputation rather then focusing on improvements from the frontend of things. We'll see. I would rather eat my words than my speculation becoming true.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
  8. doubt

    doubt Tazmanian

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    Especially because there is only one active developer to deliver the expected goodies.
     
  9. djbaxter

    djbaxter Tazmanian Veteran

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    At the moment, I'm pretty happy with 1.5.21 and a selection of addons. The combination and an excellent style from PixelExit are working just great. :)

    I'm in no hurry to update to 2.x until it has all the features and/or plugins I want. Whether it's one developer or 10, I'd rather wait for them to do it right than rush out a "Gold" version that's really a beta - anyone remember vBulletin doing that? More than once? :rolleyes: Even though I have a policy of not upgrading to point zero releases, I got burned by vBulletin by waiting for an x.2 release and discovering it was STILL actually a beta.

    And as Tracy PerryTracy Perry said above,
    I'm way past needing the latest thing just because it's the latest thing.
     
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  10. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

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    I cleaned up this thread for the second time and deleted about 25 posts . A general comment:

    Please avoid all bickering and needless personal arguments. If you cant help yourself then ignore this thread voluntarily.

    Read the rules when in doubt.
     
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  11. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated ass-hat

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    <To comply with Alfa1Alfa1 's moderation choices .. here is a simply reply>
    An assumption of there being only one developer based upon the fact that Chris D posts on TAZ and none of the other developers do is an not based upon any fact, but supposition. The same goes for whether they are posting over on their own support site (https://xenforom.com) or not nor does the lack of HYS postings mean that there is only one developer active (they may have learned from the XF 2.0 early announcement fiasco). The reverse argument could be made that they are so busy that they don't have time to post and have appointed Chris as the "official ambassador" and that statement would be based upon the same "information" that the "only one developer" statement would be.

    The only people that know who is active on the development of the code currently are the developers themselves and possibly XF moderators (with the word "possibly" emphasized).... but normal users have nothing to base upon and then make statements of fact that are not based upon evidence.
    I'm always (as are most) leery of people whom make statements of fact when they have no evidence to base those statements upon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  12. Slavik

    Slavik Aspirant

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    I do sometimes read these threads with a raised eyebrow and think, wtf how do people come to these conclusions :ROFLMAO: Business as usual, as has always been the case, just because a dev isn't publicly posting doesnt mean they arent around. If you absolutely need a certain member of staff to look at an issue you can always FAO it, though generally we try to keep the devs away from general ticket support where possible so they can focus on developing. Obviously severe issues / bugs get raised to them but 99% of tickets the moderating staff can resolve relatively quickly.
     
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  13. The Sandman

    The Sandman Administrator

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    I’d call them speculations, not conclusions. And of course you should be wondering about them... perhaps a bit less dismissively. They indicate underlying concerns by your customers and potential customers, regardless of how the f*** they came to have them.
     
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  14. Solidus

    Solidus Stupid machines!

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    Still on XF1, works well so no reason to update.
     
  15. Slavik

    Slavik Aspirant

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    I dunno, considering the accelerating rate of XF2 conversions and migrations going on it seems to be a very small minority who have that concern.

    Either way, no need to whip it up into some massive furore. 2.1 is gonna be awesome :love:
     
  16. Matthew S

    Matthew S Adherent

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    I know I seem to repeat myself about 2.0 being mainly a feature parity release with 1.5, but to be fair...

    It's been nearly 3 years since XF 1.5.0 was released. There's a pent up demand for a little more new feature sugar from the devs. SlavikSlavik I really hope you are right about the amount of awesome contained in 2.1 or there's going to be massive hand wringing threads on TAZ. :D
     
  17. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

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    3 years. Wow/ Now imagine if XF1 releases would have kept flowing. We would have almost been at XF1.9
    I hope that in the end the investment of 3 years time into XF2 rewrite will be worth while after all.
     
  18. Slavik

    Slavik Aspirant

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    It's really quite difficult to illustrate or explain how / why the XF2 code base is as good as it is and why the time invested in it was worthwhile, I appreciate for a site admin, its a bit "meh" because that isnt something you can directly see or feel as an advantage to your site, but I would argue of all forum software currently out there, nothing comes close to XenForo 2s code base.

    We are already seeing some incredible and unique stuff being developed on it which unless you knew otherwise, you would have no idea the backend is being run from XenForo, I guess it would be fair to call XenForo a "platform" in its own right now.
     
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  19. Kevin

    Kevin Oooh, something shiny!

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    Anything that can be shared for others to take a look at?
     
  20. Kentaurus

    Kentaurus Adherent

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    Maybe, and I really hope that great things will come.

    The crisis identity is huge though
    - Nothing for the users
    - Little for the admins

    ... and for the devs, is it amazing? Are they loving it? Maybe there are a few vocal people that feel like it's the best thing on earth. But who would choose this as a platform instead of a established open source one with hundreds of contractors ready to jump in. Against something well established in the industry? You would only choose this if you are expecting to stay in the XenForo ecosystem.

    For developers it's also lacking, I'll give you a few examples

    The documentation? Good, but not great. It explains everything on the surface and leaves the developer to fend for himself. Examples?

    - Try finding documentation on the Entity/Finder. Very scarce. It does not even explain what a parentFinder is, or every single property that there is available.
    - Or just open the code, any competent developer can do that, then find beautiful things like the Finder class with zero phpdoc, not even comments on the methods
    - Try finding the different options that you can use for templates (is foreach still valid?). Templates are hugely undocumented.

    So... who would jump developing into this when the prerequisite is to reverse-engineer for anything that you want to do? Fun for hackers and hobby projects, but that's it.

    And.. did XF really stitch their own ORM by hand? Sigh :(


    Well... I'm sure that the devs had a lot of fun building this platform. And it's going to be good for them. It's good. It's decent. If this were my work I would be proud of it because I can tell the quality. But from the outside: Not great. Not revolutionary.
     
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