Struggling really hard to find a reason to go XF2

Discussion in 'XenForo' started by Kentaurus, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Kentaurus

    Kentaurus Adherent

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    I let a good 6 months pass since 2.0 was released, and now I'm looking at my upgrade path.

    I can tell that the prospect of upgrading is highly unappealing. It just doesn't seem that there is something there.

    I remember upgrading from vBulletin 1 to 2, it was massive. Private messages, polls, custom avatars (could you believe you were not able to upload your own?)
    Then from vBulletin 2 to 3, again, massive, wysiwyg editor, plugin system, inline moderation. Very appealing community features that I could use right away.

    XenForo was very refreshing coming from the train wreck that were vb4 and let's not talk about anything after that. Finally, a good product and a solid platform to build on top of.

    Now ... XF2? I'd have to say, it's very, very, very, very boring.

    They took some of the good add-ons like navigations and widgets and made them built-in. Which is cool, but we already had a very solid implementation of them.

    The new 'platform' is a liability, my add-ons will break, I need to redo/repurchase all of them, and on top of that I need to learn a few new paradigms. Who cares if it's better, the point is that it's new, and will require time.

    Zero value to the community. I don't get anything that I don't already have.
    Zero value to me as an admin. Just tons of work.
    ... and don't get me started with the add-ons that plainly do not exist, credits, shop, blogs, to name a few


    I find myself looking around. That IPB thing that I have a license for and have never used is starting to look attractive. Or maybe I'll just stick to XF1.5 for another year. I just sincerely hope that the XenForo devs are not working on another rewrite to XF3.0 with whatever the new cool framework is. As it stands right now, the new version seems to have shipped with zero flagship or killer features.
     
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  2. fixer

    fixer Just Me

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    xf2 looks a lot better than xf1 ......or you could use your IPB license and make a fully functional website and not just a forum that tries to do what facebook groups already do better and not to mention fb groups have 0 headaches and cost $0.

    *Edited for Grammer Nazi Tracy Perry
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  3. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

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    XF2.0 is not meant to be massive. XF2.1 is supposed to be. Wait for that.
     
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  4. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated asshat

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    Now Now... IPS has it's headaches.... and if you are going to extend to some of the base needs of IPS (like a classifieds section for one example) it's going to cost well more than $0. Hell, I'm using a minimal amount of add-ons (other than 1st party) and I'm already into the past the $100 range on simple add-ons.
     
  5. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated asshat

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    Yep...that's what I'm waiting for. If they don't do some stuff that I'm looking for I'll look at IPS for my existing XF site most likely. It's more expensive at the base line cost but it does have some stuff built in that XF1.x/2.0.x do not.
     
  6. Mouth

    Mouth Enthusiast

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    I've not seen any roadmap or list of features for XF2.1. Why do we think that?
     
  7. Russ

    Russ Administrator

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  8. Mouth

    Mouth Enthusiast

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    New features, yes. It was mainly my query on the usage of massive, and yours too now for major. Is massive/major just a hopeful expectation, or have we been given some sort of indication to quantify/relate what massive/major is? The only thing I've seen is XF staff (Chris I think it was?) saying that php7.2 will be required for a new optional function.
     
  9. Russ

    Russ Administrator

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    No nothing has been announced for 2.1 if that's what you're asking. I think we're all here hoping for "massive" features. Massive, major, whatever you want to label it.
     
  10. fixer

    fixer Just Me

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    i was refering to a facebook group
     
  11. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer

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    I can assure you we're in no hurry to rewrite from scratch again and the foundation of XF 2.x has been designed to last many, many years. If there ever is an XF 3.0 (vs. continuing for as long as possible with XF 2.X releases) then there would not likely be an inclination even then to start over from scratch as we did with 2.0. Though of course a major version bump will nearly always mean some sort of major backward compatibility breaks, but the extent of which wouldn't always need to essentially be "total" as it was with XF2.
     
  12. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

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    I'd actually step back and appreciate where you are.

    If you were to take the XF2 leap now, it'd have been a mistake and would've negatively impacted your community. So good on you for doing the research and approaching it properly. If it ain't broke, don't fix it type of thing.

    Having said that, IPS 4.x is a beautiful thing I love it. I love using it. But don't kid yourself, it'll be at least as much work as a XF2 upgrade. But at least with IPS, you're getting a whole new world for that work.

    Between the two choices, I'd bet XF2 is the easier and cheaper path. But IPS may offer more in the long run. I use both on 2 different sites.

    Take your time. Do a side by side comparison. Cost/benefit. Etc. I love upgrading. I love the newest. But sometimes that is a fault ;)
     
  13. Chris D

    Chris D XenForo Developer

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    I think the sheer majority of customers who have already taken that "leap" would disagree with you.
     
  14. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

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    I'm talking about his situation specifically.

    I myself have a XF2 board.

    Judging by the OP, XF2 would be a wrong move for the thread starter.
     
  15. baona119

    baona119 Participant

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    I'm not sure what are they planning but I don't really see a massive features upgrade. Forum is like a dead-end. There are hardly any revolutionary features.

    Page, Social Group ... what more could you think of?

    If they can make forum more real-time interactive, it would be great. I'm waiting to migrate my vB 4.2 forum.
     
  16. Pete

    Pete Flavours of Forums Forever

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    If you add more real-time stuff to it, the server load also increases, meaning it might require you to spend more on hosting.

    Also, do forums need to be real time? I've always thought the appeal of a forum was that you could sit and write some content and not feel the need to contribute now now now now now everything must be now omg everything must be now too late you didn't post already and the world has moved on.

    Oh wait, that's social media I'm thinking of...
     
  17. baona119

    baona119 Participant

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    Frankly I don't know, just see it as a proposal.

    Nowaday everything is more or less realtime, even if you like traditional forum you can't just ignore that. More realtime means more engagement in most case. Realtime make user not to feel alone, it never forces them to keep posting.
    Realtime works best for occuring event, such as a football matchup, a betting. I don't want to tell my user that: Sorry, our forum only allows serious discussion, go somewhere like Facebook and Discord or constantly press F5.
    Back in those days, I drop an interesting post and keep refreshing the page to see replies, why is that still a problem today?

    Realtime needs Websocket to be efficient so server load is a concern. But more or less realtime is still good enough.
     
  18. Pete

    Pete Flavours of Forums Forever

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    Ah, but it does, and therein lies the problem. It encourages a cycle of quick replies, rather than longer considered ones. This very post is an example, ironically enough.

    Real time works great for such events. But to handle real time events like that, you need the server infrastructure to cope with it. You need to be able to handle that load (Facebook and Discord have a lot of servers, you have one)

    More importantly, though, having such real time facilities discourages people from writing longer posts, because snappy posts only encourage people to write short snappy replies. Any real focus on real time essentially says 'sorry, we don't want serious discussion' because there just isn't the room to do it.

    It's like trying to have a serious discussion on Twitter - you get chunks of a message glued together and then people have no meaningful way to discuss the whole thing. It just doesn't work.

    I'm suggesting that if you really want to have real time features, go to a venue that has real time features, and interaction models that support it. I don't expect forums to be real time because that seems to me to be against the point of a forum.

    In the same way I don't walk into a classical venue and tell the orchestra that Beethoven's music is too slow and they should play modern rock - I don't go there for modern rock. I go there for the classical music - and I don't need to suggest they change it, because the venue is part of the experience. In exactly the same way, the nature of discussion on forums is part of the reasons forums endure - because not every scenario needs fast paced back and forth, or short snappy mobile-friendly bitesize chunks of content.
     
  19. baona119

    baona119 Participant

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    You bring me to an old debate whether forum is one kind of social media.
    It depends on your opinion and how you see it. I personally don't see it as a classic one.

    You can have realtime and quality discussions at the same time, otherwise it's your job to review your management.
     
  20. djbaxter

    djbaxter Tazmanian Veteran

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    No need to.

    Most forums have an off-topic or chit-chat forum where members can post pretty much anything that isn't offensive. And you don't need to obsessively refresh the page. I don't know anything that's THAT critical or urgent.

    If you really want, you can add a shout box but personally I hate those. They just scroll off the screen before you can even scan them, they don't allow any moderation, and they take members away from your actual forum posts. But that option is there on most platforms if you insist.
     
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