So I guess a lot of EU based sites will be shutting down when Article 13 becomes law...

Discussion in 'Managing an Online Community' started by BirdOPrey5, May 30, 2018.

  1. Nev_Dull

    Nev_Dull Anachronism

    1,811
    717
    +885
    On the other side of things, Copyrights on the internet have been in a state for quite a while. I haven't read the text of the final form of this law but it is true that something needed to be done to protect people's work online. I'm not convinced putting the onus on the content deliverer is the right way to go, though it is consistent with the EU's current course of protecting people's rights, without expecting any effort on their part.
     
  2. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

    6,524
    1,342
    +4,934
    My (limited) understanding is as things stand a forum would require a licence to publish links or quoted material which is subject to copyright. However now I've read some of the detail it's also my understanding that the vote is a negotiating position which will now go to a “trilogue,” a negotiation between the EU Council and the Commission, where the details could change yet again.

    The next vote which will be binding should take place early next year.
     
  3. esquire

    esquire Habitué

    1,590
    642
    +629
    We're in agreement here. My point is only how shockingly poor some of these approaches seem to be. I find it odd because, on the surface, other areas the EU's approaches can be quite innovative and ostensibly well thought out. And then there are these which seem to be an example of trying to take a blunt instrument to deal with problems and it isn't going to work with the finesse they expect.
     
  4. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    4,998
    1,387
    +1,970
    This article 11 and 13 is done because it was lobbied for by news outlets they nowthink facebook and google are going to pay.
     
  5. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated asshat

    5,183
    492
    +3,577
    • Like Like x 1
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
    • List
  6. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    4,998
    1,387
    +1,970
  7. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Administrator

    3,653
    1,702
    +2,537
    This will hit forums hard, and Reddit harder.
     
  8. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    4,998
    1,387
    +1,970
    Only if reddit is EU based.
     
  9. esquire

    esquire Habitué

    1,590
    642
    +629
    There is one good point which isn't followed through which undermines the entire tax. All publishers need to do is put in a robots directive for "noindex" and all the links go out of the Google search engine. Arguably, the publishers themselves have all the rights to control whether or not their content appears in Google. It undermines the entire argument that publishers are powerless to avoid being harmed by being included, at least with regard to Google's search engine.
     
  10. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated asshat

    5,183
    492
    +3,577
    That was covered in that article I linked to... they (newsies) are playing the "woe is us" card but they want their cake and eat it too. And the EU is likely to give it to them as they are against those big bad evil corporations and all about the power of the government and their right to protect their innocent citizens and businesses.
    Never mind it's a simple solution that Google honors (robots.txt), it's to difficult for those brain dead EU politicians to understand.
    If they were going to do it right, they would force the news providers to block all scraping via robots.txt. Then if a news aggregator/search engine scraped it with robots.txt blocking it there would be grounds to go on.

    They want that search engine power sending hits their way, but they also want to be compensated 3-4 times for it (by the search engine, usually by a subscription cost to the site, and then ad revenue). Hell, most people would LOVE being paid by 3 different companies for doing one job.
     
  11. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    4,998
    1,387
    +1,970
    The problem is that old news companies have no clue you to run digital. Look at the prices does are almost the same as paper instead of going for the masses they want high paying members.
     
  12. esquire

    esquire Habitué

    1,590
    642
    +629
    Technically it's the wrong solution and only one road into Rome. And what I'm talking about is removing all their content from Google, future, present and past - if they so want to insist that this is the proper and appropriate route.

    I'm very sympathetic to the sweat of the brow work that media companies make. There is no question that we do need to work a little harder to ensure the right people get paid. But these moves feel as if they are being done by bureaucrats and not with the good sense of people on the ground who understand how the world actually works.
     
  13. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Administrator

    4,998
    1,387
    +1,970
    • Informative! Informative! x 1
    • List
  14. truthingtotruth

    truthingtotruth Aspirant

    112
    33
    +22
    Frankly, them law folks that are supposed to make the laws are way too late and that is my view because the big companies that are being quite greedy about all this now have plenty of money to pay for the super fine lawyers that will keep the law-making folks running in circles for ages and ages, and while they are all chasing each other around in them super fine legal buildings, like courthouses, the Net will continue to evolve and even fancier ways will arise to get past copyright laws, and those other laws, too.

    There is only one way to deal with this and it has been done in the past, more than once.

    I think one good example was that big fancy oil guy in the very early 20th Century - - - they simply broke his oil giant into pieces and the market got a tad bit more level for lower ranking business folks.

    Another, more recent example, was the breaking up of a big telephone company in the 70s, I think it was.

    They will do it again - - - the politician that manages the power buttons properly will simply get the necessary power and break a couple of the biggest companies up and BAM - - - there will be that window of opportunity to get some decent laws on the books before all them fancy lawyer types can find the high salaries again to fight back. Them fancy lawyer types won't do their fancy yak-yak-yak until somebody pays them, right? Unfortunately, governments don't pay enough.

    And governments only get them super good politician types once in a blood-red moon time; and maybe in real emergencies.

    The question is, how close are we to a real emergency? You know, when the big company has too much power?

    Personally, I think we are getting kind of close. But the EU folks still seem to be trying to cross the Atlantic in a canoe on this one. But do not worry. One of them hotshot EU folks will push the right buttons and suddenly Google is going to see the SS EU, a new improved giant battleship, coming at them across the Atlantic, and then they will see that downsizing is the only option. Or the big guns on that new improved EU battleship will simply blow the company into smaller pieces, like the U.S. Government once did to that oil fella.

    On the other hand, if The Admin Zone powers are not too scared of the big companies you could start a true committee to research how true change can be achieved. Make the proceedings public, but only allow certain chosen committee members to try and build the proper infrastructure to combat these new monsters in what should be a free economic world, but is becoming less free because of a lack of funds within groups like right here.

    And, yes, I know what I just wrote in that paragraph is a mighty dangerous statement, when one gives it due consideration. But I don't think I want to apologize for thinking that way.
     
  15. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

    4,164
    912
    +1,700
    I believe Google has said they intend to pull out of the EU (at least Google News) if these laws come to pass... So you may get your wish, greedy companies will leave.
     
  16. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

    6,524
    1,342
    +4,934
    Google has been testing stripped-down news SERPs in anticipation of the legislation. This is what the EU (and the UK if we fail to Brexit in time) can expect to see in future.

    Screen-Shot-2019-01-15-at-10.22.07-PM-681x600.png
     
  17. Kevin

    Kevin Oooh, something shiny!

    3,342
    912
    +1,137
    Ed McMahon: I hold in my hand the envelopes. As a child of four can plainly see, these envelopes have been hermetically sealed. They've been kept in a mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' porch since noon today. No one knows the contents of these envelopes – but you, in your mystical and borderline divine way, will ascertain the answers having never before heard the questions.

    Carnac the Magnificent: An explosion in VPN usage!

    Ed McMahon: What can internet customers in the EU look forward to?

    a2.bp.blogspot.com__K3kmKScms_o_Uh_s8RP00vI_AAAAAAAAXZo_0oQqXgEhN_E_s1600_Carnac.jpg
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Pure Genius! Pure Genius! x 1
    • List
  18. Zero Numbers

    Zero Numbers Adherent

    307
    95
    +28
    The major news outlets are desperate because less people are watching them.
     
  19. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

    4,164
    912
    +1,700
    If they started reporting real news again people would watch. I know I would.
     
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.