So I guess a lot of EU based sites will be shutting down when Article 13 becomes law...

Discussion in 'Internet and Technology' started by BirdOPrey5, May 30, 2018.

  1. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

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    Shame so many put all that effort into GDPR when their days were numbered. I imagine sites will be sellings for cents on the dollar to US and other non-EU entities. (Cents on the Euro? Is that a phrase?)



    So looks like the EU will force all ISPs to censor what any user may upload anywhere and if there is a mention or even a link to a copyrighted work you'll need permission from the copyright holder to link to their work and pay a link tax... and if your ISP doesn't do this filtering they will be held financially responsible for anything you do wrong online.

    Unlike GDPR there is still a slight chance of stopping this.
     
  2. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    Except it doesn't refer to ISPs. It's talking about services like YouTube. (ISSPs can include ISPs but in this interpretation it is clearly thinking of something like YT)

    And you know what? YouTube already has this, because it had to, to comply with various US copyright laws, not least of was the DMCA, and in particular the ruling in 2016 changing liability towards site owners for content infringements. And there have been DMCA filings against non US entities before we start talking overreach again.

    And again we're also back to what is appropriate and proportionate. The opening preamble makes it clear that the target is not the many but "certain service providers" and the emphasis on "audiovisual" makes me think it's about clamping down on the rampant copyright infringement that occurs on YT.

    And Recital 38 makes reference to Article 14 of 2000/31/EC which explicitly accounts for the EU equivalent of safe harbour, making it just as safe as it has been for the last 16 years or so that if you as a host aren't knowingly using copyrighted materials, you're good provided that you act on knowledge when given.

    Other than that it seems to be tightening up on otherwise widespread use of copyrighted materials and I can't see from it where it puts more burdens on us as site owners that we wouldn't already have, in the US or the EU.
     
  3. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated ass-hat

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    And exactly how well do those go... oh yeah... pretty much ignored.
    It's much easier to pursue it under the ECD than DMCA since DMCA is not enforceable in the EU.
    https://www.dmca.com/faq/European-DMCA-Takedown-process (and I find it funny that there is a private company making money off the 4 letters involved with a federal law that honestly should have been registered by said US Government as an information site by the USDOC).
     
  4. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    The DMCA itself isn’t directly enforceable here, no, but it has a legal equivalent of sorts, the Electronic Commerce Directive 2000 (the aforementioned 2000/31/EC), which can be used in much the same way, it just isn’t because it didn’t get the media spotlight.

    Still see no need for drama here.
     
  5. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

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    While it may well be that the EU has cooked another half baked directive, that video comes across as far from objective. I stopped watching after 3.20 minutes.
     
  6. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    I didn’t even bother watching the video, I went and looked up the only source of actual truth: the legislature draft itself.
     
  7. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

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    I did both but couldn't really reconcile one with the other although I have to admit the draft almost caused my brain to melt. The proposed legislation seems rather complex.
     
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  8. Maddox

    Maddox Moderator

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    This also throws something new into the melting pot:

    Read the article here >>>> CLICK
     
  9. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

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    64b5b46bd2f113ff5ea0185f87f71db2--coffee-humor-coffee-quotes.jpg
     
  10. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    I don’t know why the ICO thought it would be treated any differently...
     
  11. Brad

    Brad Charter Member

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    The crappy drawing of the nu-male in the preview wasn't enough of a hint that it'd be crap?

    Anyway, if the recent actions of the EU aren't enough to convince everyone that laws on/for the internet are a bad idea then I don't know what is. I've given up on the clearnet, it's just going to get controlled by data monopolies because all the independants (this means you) allowed it to happen. I don't blame people for getting suckered into a bad deal but after all these years of abuse at the hands of google and the other large companies you'd think more people would be waking up to reality. Stop giving them data!

    The future is distributed content that can never be censored via p2p networks and later meshnets once the big companies see the writing on the wall and attempt to block those networks at the major backbones. The only real innovation I've seen in the past few years has happened on the so-called darknetworks and p2p technology like IPFS. Where on the clearnet all we've had in the past few years is more hacky javascript thrown on top of the existing crap and laws written to seize control over portions of the global network.

    The global network is going to get split into regions if this keeps up. Soon every major country/region will be like China. As more laws are passed and the trade war spreads you'll start to see regions blocking their citizens from accessing other regions. Great firewalls for everyone and the justification for it all will be; hate speech, drugs, and the children.
     
  12. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    You mean like forums have the basis to be?
     
  13. Matthew S

    Matthew S Adherent

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    It is starting to happen.

    Australia charges a goods and services tax within our borders. Now, we are forcing everyone else globally to collect taxes on the government's behalf. Just like the discussions saying non EU admins will just block EU users over GDPR, well, non-AU companies are just going to block AU shoppers. Apparently other countries are looking to implement similar laws. So much for free trade, consumer choice, etc.

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2018/05/31/amazon-us-australia-gst/
     
  14. punchbowl

    punchbowl Adherent

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    we'll have a few people with sites that get 9 visitors daily set themselves up as experts and they'll explain exactly how we are nazis if we don't accept this.

    just a normal person here but if after cookie notice pop-up, gdpr stupidity and now this you are still defending the eu there is something wrong with you.

    You'll never admit it though because it's no longer about right or wrong, it's about which side you are on.
     
  15. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    The actual implementation of these things was boneheaded for sure, but what they were trying to do: show you how you’re being tracked and makecompanies not misuse your data... these seem admirable goals to me.
     
  16. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Opinionated ass-hat

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    The proverb "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" quickly comes to mind.
     
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  17. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

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    It seems to me what they are trying to do is make laws impossible to follow so they can fine large companies (primarily US based companies) millions or billions of dollars on a regular basis to finance their troubled socialist programs and other poor judgements they have made.

    Claiming acceptance of cookies terms can't be tied to the use of the service is basically saying companies have to offer all their benefits for free. We all know the game. Ads are easily blocked. It's the data that's worth the big bucks to Facebook and Google. Block them from collecting and sharing that (which everyone knows they do) and you're forcing them to give away their product for free. That's their business model. If you don't like it, don't use them.
     
  18. BirdOPrey5

    BirdOPrey5 #Awesome

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    There was an update to the original video so I am including it here for completeness-



    According to the video the law will require Google and Microsoft (and all other sites) to pay news sites for showing short snippets of their news articles and LINKING users to that news. Even though Google sends millions of people to news sites and those sites show ads Google and indeed this site would have to pay if someone linked to a news article.

    Further it seems like "fair use" is being eliminated.
     
  19. Pete

    Pete Developer

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    Did you actually read the law as proposed?

    And what Google does in terms of showing snippets... that's not actually covered in fair use either in US or EU copyright laws. They're literally making money off your content without paying you for it, and it's assumed that because you don't opt out of your content on Google, you're implicitly consenting to this business model.
     
  20. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Moderator

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    That of Google and Facebook is going on for a few years now. Newspapers are saying they are losing money because of them. Read this https://www.huffingtonpost.com/enrique-dans/google-news-leaving-spain_b_6325244.html?guccounter=1 Spain thought that it could ask money and Google closed the site. Funny enough if you read more now Newspapers are upset because they lost visitors.
     
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