Reactions coming in XF 2.1

[Alpha1]

sbjsbj have you thought that maybe 99% of the community would be happy with a basic implementation of the reactions? I'd said the majority of the users in that thread are showing excitement for the feature and are not saying it's too basic.

I don't think its that simple. Of course it is great to see reactions included and you can feel happy about pretty awesome functionality. However, when you turn negative reactions on, without any limitations to limit its abuse. Then at least at larger sites that happiness will probably be replaced with sadness and regret. Many webmasters will then simply decide negative ratings is not for them. Others will then ask for functionality to prevent and limit abuse. At least that is how it went with vb3 reputation.

Its also why TAZ has limited negative post ratings.
And why I have extensive functionality against abuse in my reputation system.
And most likely also why the XF team has been adamant for years that there would never be dislikes and negative ratings. I'm very glad that this has changed, but I do think its an oversight to not learn from that very sentiment.

 

[Russ]

I don't think its that simple. Of course it is great to see reactions included and you can feel happy about pretty awesome functionality. However, when you turn negative reactions on, without any limitations to limit its abuse then at least at larger sites that happiness will probably be replaced with sadness and regret. Many will then simply decide negative ratings is not for them. Others will then ask for functionality to prevent and limit abuse. At least that is how it went with vb3 reputation.

Its also why TAZ has limited negative post ratings.
And why I have extensive functionality against abuse in my reputation system.
And most likely also why the XF team has been adamant for years that there would never be dislikes and negative ratings. I'm very glad that this has changed, but I do think its an oversight to not learn from that very sentiment.

I'm not saying the current implementation is perfect for everyone. My post was primarily referring to sbj saying that XF basically gave everyone the middle finger by making it so basic (his words, not mine):

but objectively spoken many people will need it, and bringing just the bare minimum is a bit showing the middle finger.

I have a feeling the majority of users don't find this addition a middle finger in their face, but a welcomed addition. XF forums have got by fine with just a like button and if you're going to sit there and tell me they can't utilize the reactions as it currently stands... we'll just need to agree to disagree .

I personally would love to see permissions on a per usergroup/node basis:
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/reactions-node-group.154994/

 

[sbjsbj]

But what I do want to absolutely refute is that our implementation of Reactions is “bare minimum”. What actual basis do you have for that, exactly? You have no idea how much work has gone into making that functionality what it is today. Anything considered “missing” is either an oversight because we may not have realised how much need there was for it or it’s something that we feel isn’t a requirement for most customers, or it might be something we were considering for the future.

So, frankly, anyone calling our implementation “basic” it feels pretty much like a slap in the face because, far from basic, it represents what the majority of customers have already asked for and as ever we can respond to feedback and iterate things over time.

From my view, the bare minimum is "a list of reactions you can choose from", like you can choose smileys.
You went a bit ahead and put limited scores behind it. So it is above the bare minimum slightly.

I don't own or use ThemeHouse's or Xon's reaction addons, I don't even know what kind of features they have frankly.

But what I know is that XF has permissions build since 1.0. And since 2.0 you have introduced the widget system.

So when I see something official, the standards I expect are permission system and widgets for it. Anything above that is considered more than the standard I would say. You had enough time in my opinion to give reactions a node-based and/or groups based permission system. Any kind of medium addon has built-in permissions. So I am suprised to see that such a new feature is globally enabled for all without us being able to decide for who we want to have it.
And on top of that, for what do we have the widgets if we don't make a use of it? Why isn't there 1-3 new widgets? Like "top 5 most reactions score of the week" for users, threads and posts? Is that too much?

That is why I consider the current implementation the bare minimum. I'm sorry if I sound like a d*** but sugarcoating things is not the way I am as a person and I like to be frank and straight. There is another Turkish proverb which can be translated into "you have to be cruel to be nice", like "real friends tell the truth".

And yes, I don't know how much work has gone into making it, but to be honest, that reasoning was used for 2.0 already. Will you forever stick to that line when someone criticizes an implementation? And is it my fault that you guys aren't transparent? How the hell should I know how much work went into it if you keep everything a secret?

I really think XF as a company needs faster releases and more releases. Because right now we wait years and years and when finally there is a release, it looks to me like the bare minimum and then you say always the same lines like "put a suggestion, we may look into that in the future", which you almost never do, sorry.

Anyway, to be fair, I was suprised today to see the video upload integration. It also needs polishing like the reactions, but I must admit I was suprised and good to hear that the announcements are not half through yet. So far all of the new additions are on point and one must give credit where credit is due. But my expectations this time are much higher than the last time. Last time for 2.0 you said it will be feature parity and the benefit of the doubt went last time to you. This time no more excuses, please. And so far it looks good, just I am a bit harsh when I evaluate each new introduction, but overall all good.

Sorry for being such a d*** sometimes, but I don't intend something bad. I grew up with forums, visiting forums for 20+ years now and I see XF as the last bastion before forums vanish forever from the web.

 

[sbjsbj]

I have a feeling the majority of users don't find this addition a middle finger in their face, but a welcomed addition. XF forums have got by fine with just a like button and if you're going to sit there and tell me they can't utilize the reactions as it currently stands... we'll just need to agree to disagree .

I personally would love to see permissions on a per usergroup/node basis:
https://xenforo.com/community/threads/reactions-node-group.154994/

I think you slightly misunderstood what I wrote or I was not clear enough. I don't think that the majority of users will find it bad, they will welcome it, just like I do it.
The middle finger part is that even though there were 2 major addons, XF decided to implement it (which is good, like I said multiple times and people will love it), just at least do it in a manner that it makes those 2 addons (or Luke's from 1.x) unnecassary. Right now as it is for me it is the bare minimum and I have to ask myself the same question you asked, why there is no permissions for it at all?

 

[zappaDPJ]

Right now as it is for me it is the bare minimum and I have to ask myself the same question you asked, why there is no permissions for it at all?

I also think there may be some scope for extending this area although I'll reserve judgement until I've seen it live. However to me it looks like a solid foundation that will suit the majority and I'm sure any further requirements will be cater for by an add-on if there's enough of a need.

 

[sbjsbj]

I also think there may be some scope for extending this area although I'll reserve judgement until I've seen it live. However to me it looks like a solid foundation that will suit the majority and I'm sure any further requirements will be cater for by an add-on if there's enough of a need.

Yeah, agree, it is a solid foundation, of course it is. I see addons like marketplace, reviews, tickets, classifieds type of things extending that foundation. All good. But honestly I am tired of spending a lof money to addons. I don't expect XF integrate that kind of addons with the reactions system, but addons like "... essentials" shouldn't be there. Stuff like permissions, widgets, ACP batch update, ACP Spam stuff, log/stats etc. should all come with XF in the core. Let developers build addons which is beyond the "basic stuff".
It adds up too much in the long run. Having to buy an addon for attachments so I can limit attachment size per extension and not globally is what I consider too much or having to buy an addon so PDF files can be opened in browser (which is standard everywhere) instead of pdf files being downloaded is such stuff what I mean.
At this point I expect from XF more than the bare minimum, give us a good solid packages around. Don't deliver the bare minimum and transfer the work to developers. And addons get pricey from day to day. There are barely any free addons for XF1, all paid. XF should also think about this when they implement new stuff. Not everything should be passed on to the dev community. There is also a trophy system for XF, like the widgets, like the permissions. All in the core. So I expect when XF publishes new stuff, that those stuff is integrated with the new stuff, which isn't at all in the case of reactions.

 

[Mark87]

This may come off as snarky to a few people here but my biggest complaint is that there seems to be a big outcry from developers and coders when quite frankly it's Joe blow forum owner that everyone should be listening too on this stuff.

I bought the themehouse reactions(love it by the way) when I upgraded to 2.0 and in hindsight I most likely would not have upgraded my solid 1.5 forum to 2.0 had I known that all this was coming to 2.1.

Having said that I really wish and it's my biggest peeve that xenforo spent more time making life simpler for the average forum owner who really doesn't want to diddle in the back end but wants to administrate and run a feature rich forum without all the "developer" and "coder" BS that always seems to come out in an update. Remember with out the average Joe none of you make a buck. Two cents

 

[Mike Creuzer]

This was a lot of speculation about why I was being so direct about the reactions feature. I guess I should clear that up as certain people speculating is uh, not useful information.

Ultimately, if XenForo wants to grow like WordPress or Shopify or other platforms they are going to need established people to devote time and resources to their product. I was pointing out a simple truth that is still the case that we need some clarity on what is being developed.

Would you want the developers to respond to suggestions saying: "We're considering this for 2.2" only to discourage a third party developer not to code it and in the end them not actually put it in?

Yeah, I think thats not a bad suggestion. I think you may be posting this as a devil's advocate (not sure), but I actually believe something like that would help. Then some developers might not hire on people or invest their own time in building something that is a waste of time. Thats not good for XF either, they want quality resources too. If XF said "this is planned" or something (without requiring devs to read every comment) but something stateful on the issue, someone like me would just skip right over that, no harm no foul.

Maybe people at XF don't always get along, but the simple fact that ALL OF US are here is good for XenForo; customers, people debating asking for something better, developers, designers, etc. XenForo being complained to by their constituents (all of us) are just going to have to live with us wanting better, more, etc. Its the nature of the business. The one thing I'll say is I was extremely impressed with both Chris and Mike reaching out to express their opinion and commenting on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, I look forward to seeing what they do and have nothing more to add but excitement for new active features coming to XenForo.

 

[fixer]

#groundbreaking

 

[Xon]

What will happen to existing ratings from luke's addon? Will the numbers convert/be carried over?

Both Content Rating and [TH] Reactions have an importer for Luke's (abandoned) add-on.

Updating the Content Rating's importer should be very easy for me, as my design choices map fairly closely to what XF2.1 Reactions already do.