Plugins

[Zardoz]

Do plugins extend software functionality, or demonstrate it's deficiencies?

 

[Lisa]

Extend functionality - definitely!
Demonstrate its (there's no apostrophe there ) deficiencies - sometimes.

A lot of the big addons extend because they supply things that not every forum requires and keeps the bloat down to the minimum for a default installation. But, with that said, there are a lot of small addons that a forum would benefit from having as part of the default installation. Please don't ask me to list them at this very second I haven't had my first coffee yet - I'll return later with some of the most requested as core addons.

 

[Vilandra]

I think it's more customization. Which is not to say that a software can't be deficient and thus need a lot a plugins, but as long as the software is solid/usable without plugins, it allows people to do what they personally want with a forum that others might not want, without bloating the software for others and having performance suffer. Much the same way that editing templates for style is a customization rather than a deficiency.

 

[dtdesign]

In general plugins should serve the purpose to specialize the software in one direction, for instance a car-related community has different needs compared to a gaming website. The forum software itself should cover all general cases as well some specializations in case the majority will benefit from it.

There's no point overloading the core with countless of features whereas each one of them is only useful for a tiny fraction of users. People tend to underestimate the work that's behind each feature, it needs a concept, someone has to implement it and (this is the tricky part) maintain it for a rather long period of time. Nobody is going to benefit from a feature galore where everything you want is on board, but at the same time it's incomplete regarding your purposes and eventually broken (testing requires real-world scenarios).

That's the overall idea behind our software, offer a great variety of features and at the same time provide a solid plugin system which let's you push the software in your direction.

 

[mysiteguy]

Do plugins extend software functionality, or demonstrate it's deficiencies?

You've been a programmer for 25 years, what's your answer?

 

[cheat_master30]

In general plugins should serve the purpose to specialize the software in one direction, for instance a car-related community has different needs compared to a gaming website. The forum software itself should cover all general cases as well some specializations in case the majority will benefit from it.

There's no point overloading the core with countless of features whereas each one of them is only useful for a tiny fraction of users. People tend to underestimate the work that's behind each feature, it needs a concept, someone has to implement it and (this is the tricky part) maintain it for a rather long period of time. Nobody is going to benefit from a feature galore where everything you want is on board, but at the same time it's incomplete regarding your purposes and eventually broken (testing requires real-world scenarios).

That's the overall idea behind our software, offer a great variety of features and at the same time provide a solid plugin system which let's you push the software in your direction.

Pretty much this in a nutshell. Oh sure, a few plugins are popular enough that they indicate important features lacking in the core software. But for the most part, they're to let people customise their site for specific use cases. It's not only a forum thing either, it's what WordPress, Drupal, Joomla, Mediawiki and various other scripts do for the exact same reasons.

They exist because people need specific features, and no script ever made will be able to include features for every possible site someone might want to build with it.

 

[Joeychgo]

Do plugins extend software functionality, or demonstrate it's deficiencies?

Short answer is... Yes.

Long answer is.... They allow a site to become customized to their own needs.

 

[s.molinari]

That is a great question and perfectly shows what I consider a weakness of the current boxed software paradigm. All boxed software are an application first and then they attempt to be a development platform for extension of the application second. And because of this app first/ platform second design, the line between what should be part of the application and what is extension is too often vague. It is especially vague, when dealing with extensions that are actually generally wanted features within the software and there is no publicly released road map. The question Zardoz asks is proof of the vagueness.

Also the fact someone can write "oh great, with this new version of software X, I can get rid of N add-ons" also shows the intrinsic issue with application first/ platform second boxed software. When the vendor doesn't deliver, add-ons are created to fill voids in features and in the worst case, they also cost the customer extra to get that functionality. And when the add-on is taken over as a feature by the vendor, the income for the add-on dev stops. This stepping on each other's feet (for lack of a better term) simply shouldn't happen.

Scott

 

[Digital Doctor]

IPS supports addons better than Xenforo with their marketplace.
Xenforo barely acknowledges that addons exist, just like vBulletin did.

 

[s.molinari]

I think Kier's comments say quite the contrary. But, to be sure, what do you mean by "supports add-ons"?

Scott

 

[Digital Doctor]

I like the Professional approach taken by IPS marketplace.

 

[Chris D]

I like the Professional approach taken by IPS marketplace.

what do you mean by "supports add-ons"?

 

[s.molinari]

Are you agreeing Chris Deeming?

Digital Doctor - do you mean how they have the selling platform behind the Marketplace? I agree, a centralized selling point is the proper way to go. Though, I wouldn't qualify the missing sales platform as "barely acknowledging add-on development". If that were true, I would imagine so many add-ons would never have been developed, as is the case with XF. I am not in the add-on scene over there at all, so maybe Chris can say more?

Scott

 

[Chris D]

Not at all.

I don't feel like your question was answered by the response.

 

[Digital Doctor]

do you mean how they have the selling platform behind the Marketplace? I agree, a centralized selling point is the proper way to go.

Definitely that.

It's one thing using paypal on Xenforo.com. But it's quite another thing to need to purchase 7 addons from 7 random places on the internets. Seems quite mickey mouse to me. I am hoping that changes as time goes on.

 

[s.molinari]

Yes, we are of the same opinion then. I wouldn't call what XenForo has put together for the add-ons mickey mouse, as they are still showing success with that model, but yeah, I do also think it could be made a lot more practical for devs, when it comes to selling their add-ons. The thought of not having to throw together an e-commerce site additionally to their programming efforts could help their motivation to produce add-ons and as you pointed out the customer's perspective, they don't have to go shopping all over the Internet to get their add-ons.

Scott

 

[s.molinari]

This is true, but I am sure the conditions about who is responsible for support of the add-on can be made fairly clear at the time of purchase. As for billing issues, that is why you would take a cut of the earnings to pay for that platform and its support. Not sure if IPS does this or not, though it would make perfect sense. It is how the most popular app platforms work. Still, it isn't the easiest way to go about the service. That is clear.

Scott

 

[dtdesign]

And the reverse look on that is that they currently do not have to fool with billing issues/disputes between an author and purchaser that they would have to do if they were the official "paygate" for the add-on.
Then, with them being the payment processor, many would assume/believe that THEY had responsibility for the support of the add-on, since they were the ones processing the payment for it.

That's not an issue, we're running our Plugin-Store for over 4 years right now and there is little to none confusion at all. From what we heard from our customers over the years, it has a lot of upsides for them:

• Trust: You're not going to pay on an obscure 3rd party websites, every transaction is handled and processed by us
• Simple and reliable: You already have an account on our website and the very same account will be used for all purchases. In addition our site, unlikely 3rd party sites, does not disappear overnight

In return the commercial vendors are pretty happy in terms of publicity for their products and their revenue. After all it's simple math, every customer knows our website and visits it from time by time, drawing attention to the plugin store. A 3rd party website can barely compete with that. Commercial vendors can focus on developing their products and run their own website to provide in-depth support. We take care of product promotion, payment and infrastructure (e.g. the update servers) and pay out the vendors at the end of every month.

 

[s.molinari]

dtdesign - If I may ask, does IPS take any portion of the revenue for offering the service?

Scott

 

[dtdesign]

s.molinari I'm not sure how IPS handles this, you might want to ask someone who can give proper answers, e.g. IPSLindy