Pit bulls not safe?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Estevan, Dec 15, 2014.

  1. PoetJC

    PoetJC ⚧ Jacquii: Black Kween of TSSN ⚧

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    My brother used to fight pitbulls. I've met quite a few people that do actually.
    I've been known to tell the idiots that they need to find another substitution to satisfy their penis envy and stop torturing man's best friend!
    Status symbols indeed..

    J.
     
  2. punchbowl

    punchbowl Adherent

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    Years ago an acquaintance of mine got a pit bull and a little mongrel. Both lovely animals but he used to treat them both so badly. He used to beat on the pitbull all the time and left them alone constantly. He came home one day and the pitbull had ripped the poor other dog to pieces. He didn't give a damn. Still upsets me 20x years later. I love animals, especially dogs, all they want to do is give you unconditional love.
     
  3. PoetJC

    PoetJC ⚧ Jacquii: Black Kween of TSSN ⚧

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    Damn. So unfortunate. You said something pivotal here though ==> He didn't give a damn.
    I have no facts or figures - but would tend to *think* most horrible incidences we see with pitbulls could be quelled if the owners gave a damn. OR if the owners who didn't give a damn - simply didn't become pit owners. Dogs take their cues from their owners.

    You give them unconditional love and they'll surely give it back.
    Most loyal animals on the face of the earth!

    J.
     
  4. Brad

    Brad Meh

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    I live in the Dog fighting capitol of the world, NYC likes to lay claim to the title but they don't have anything on my local area. All the big time players buy dogs down here, before Michael Vick got caught he was buying his dogs down here. The locals breed the finest fighting dogs in the world.

    I don't support or agree with it since I've had a bond with dogs since I was a small child. I know it goes on and have seen some things go down that I'd rather not repeat and don't want to see again but there isn't much I can do about it. If I can I'll take in a puppy or full grown dog (as long as he's not too far gone) but at the moment I can't take anymore in so I haven't been of much help.

    Pitbulls by their nature are very loving animals and perfect family pets. They will watch small children like a hawk and protect them from any stranger that ventures too near. This is not a trait exclusive to the breed but they seem to have a knack for it on-par with German Shepards and Labs. Honestly, pure breeds are great and all but the best dogs are mutts. I love seeing an odd-ball mix breed dog, they are some of the best pets one could ever hope to have.

    By the way I'm not sold on the entire alpha/pack leader stuff either. I always had a connection with dogs so I never even thought about begin "pack leader". When I meet a new dog I offer it my hand to sniff and give it a good rub on the head. I become friends with it on a primal level I guess. Sometimes the dog steps out of line and I have to put it in its place but otherwise I just pal around with my dogs. They listen to me when I ask them to do something and generally just chill out.

    Here is my buddy (left him in Florida sadly), his name is Hunter Boon and he's a Black Lab/Bullmastiff. The picture doesn't do him justice because he is a HUGE dog. His bite is also stronger than most Pitbulls. I can wrestle around with him and play fight with him all day. He'll nip at my wrists but knows when he's begin too rough and lets go. He is a big teddy bear....but if you get near my little sister with bad intentions he'll let you know who's in charge really quick. ;)

    Would you consider him a threat just because of his breed?

    hunter_boon.jpg
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    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  5. Shawn Gossman

    Shawn Gossman Tazmanian Master

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    Good looking dog Brad, I see that type of dog and I just want to play with it!
     
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  6. dieKetzer

    dieKetzer Adherent

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    the pit bull doesnt bite the hardest. google this if you care:
    mastiff: 556psi
    rottweiler: 328psi
    german shepherd: 238psi
    american pitbull: 235psi
    also note there are dogs far larger than the pb, more muscular dogs, dogs with greater endurance... and the pb is still the preferred dog for fighting. probably due to its game nature, which i see you guys conveniently overlook every time you post a reply to me.
    wiki on 'game': 'In dog fighting breeds gameness is valued as it gives the dog the ability to maintain the attack in baiting, despite ripped flesh, dehydration, exhaustion or broken bones. As one writer describes it, "Game is the dog that won't quit fighting, the dog that'll die in the ring, the dog that'll fight with two broken legs." The scope and method of training to develop a game dog varies dramatically depending on the level and experience of the dog-fighter. A famous American "gamebred" breed of dog is the American Pit Bull Terrier.'
    a german shepherd will give up a fight. a rottweiler can be pulled off its victim. a pb is an entirely different matter, and that is what makes them a dangerous breed.
    seriously, trying to equate your bog-standard pb to a poodle is ludicrous. people dont need to worry about being the 'pack leader' or the alpha with their poodle because their poodle lacks the temperament, game, and physique to maul somebody to death, and any red-herring arguments you throw into the discussion isnt going to change that one bit.
     
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  7. Brad

    Brad Meh

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    A Poodle can be mean as hell and often are because people assume they are just cute little dogs that wouldn't harm a fly. A Poodle is a gun dog intended to assist hunters in retrieving water foul (birds). They are more than able to rip out your throat if they took a notion to do so. Don't let the ones you see all dressed up on TV fool you.

    Pitbulls are no different than any other type of dog. They are not born to fight nor do they have a "game nature". Pitbulls have to be trained by humans to develop the traits needed to survive a dog fight. Even those dogs tend to be non-violent towards their handlers because after all the dog has to be cared for and transported. These dogs are well fed, trained, and well taken care of outside of the ring.

    People invest thousands of dollars into these dogs. Yes, cruelty goes on like dogs begin tied to logging chains with cinder blocks attached or dog made to pull sleds around the yard with weight stacked on top. Other things go on too but I think I've made my point here already.

    These people breed too of course, a good fighting dog is worth a lot of money as a stud dog. Generally puppies from those litters aren't allowed out into the general public. Most people couldn't afford them anyway..... I've personally gotten a few pups from such litters and raised in a caring home they do fine. Even coming from "good stock" they don't have a "fighting nature".

    One last thing: A full grown Pit Bull (yes even a fighting dog) can be pulled off of someone. If one were to attack you it's pretty easy to deal with him. Just pin him and grab tight by the scruff of the neck. Assuming the worse happens and he does bite you and won't let go just punch him as hard as you can between the eyes. He'll let go every time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2014
  8. Alex.

    Alex. The Ancient Dragon

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    That would be confirmation bias. People see cops as evil heathens simply because we often hear more about bad cops than good cops. Most people will have a negative opinion of certain groups of people because the bad ones often outclass the good ones in terms of being in the news/press.

    Much like people hearing about pitbull attacks. You'll hear more about nasty little pitbulls raised by stupid owners than you'll hear about the friendly 'bull down the street. I wouldn't call you an idiot. Misinformed, sure.
     
  9. dieKetzer

    dieKetzer Adherent

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    yeah. ok.
    i dont think i will waste any more effort on this thread.
     
  10. Shawn Gossman

    Shawn Gossman Tazmanian Master

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    Maybe get out there and experience the world of dog breeds instead of relying on fairytale lol
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Administrator

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    Not exactly sure if your stating that as fact or just trying to prove your point but it is totally not the truth especially about Pit Bulls. I seen my cousin that was 250lb+ of muscle break his hand on the skull of his pit bull because it had latched onto my dalmatian's hind leg and would not turn it lose. It took a slit to the throat to finally free my dog, this was after a copper tube in the jaws of the pit bull trying to pry it apart but the tube bent. Finally my Grandpa took his knife out and did the deed. Pits determination or "game" is what can make them especially dangerous when one latches on.

    Has anyone really bothered to look at statistics? I mean it is pretty obvious the breed has its issues, and you cannot say it is just the owner or how they are raised. If you want to own one, great, visit any local pound or craigslist and you'll see plenty and have your choice of color as well.
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  12. R44

    R44 Asperger's Network? Absolutely.

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    I disclaim; I've worked with Cesar Millan, once. I've learnt a lot from him and I know dog psychology.

    Firstly, A dog, any dog, is capable of attacking. Hell, my Chihuahua could bite you if it wanted to. The thing with pit-bulls is that they have a very strong bite. The stigma is that the pitbull is a bad breed - and it's not. It just needs the right owner to teach it that biting, in a lot of cases, is the wrong thing to do.

    Exercise > Dicipline > Affection.
     
  13. Steve

    Steve Administrator

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    The problem, to many Pits and not enough owners...trainers.
     
  14. R44

    R44 Asperger's Network? Absolutely.

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    No. The issue is that most owners see a flowchart like so:

    Affection -> Affection -> Affection. There's no training of any sort, just affection.

    Rules -> Boundaries -> Limitations.
     
  15. PoetJC

    PoetJC ⚧ Jacquii: Black Kween of TSSN ⚧

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    I can't really speak for Cesar Milan. He is one of the foremost experts in the field of dog psychology though.
    I think he would disagree with as far as the pack leader comment is concerned:

    People controlling their animals is not a red-herring argument in my opinion.
    I think it's why we see so many incidences with pits ==> their owners haven't necessarily established rules, boundaries and limitations. They are not controlling their pitbulls and probably should choose a more docile dog like a Yorkie or something. My opinion anyway.

    Those numbers are startling. One thing I note though - is that pitbulls are making up 6% of total dog population - while the next highest listed is the rott at 2% --- Wouldn't you expect the pit numbers to be higher?

    I personally have owned pitbulls for years. Never have any of my pits attacked anyone.
    The vast majority of my friends and family who also have pitbulls... Their dogs are not vicious either. The only incident where I can say I've witnessed bad things with pits - is my experience with my brother who used to raise and sell pits specifically for dogfighting.

    So yeah - in my opinion the majority of vicious pitbull attacks could have been prevented if the owner(s) took responsibility for their musclebound furbabies by teaching habits to counteract their aggression. And the pound pits (haha) ... That's just another indication (to me anyway) that they were owned by owners who shouldn't have had them in the first place. It's a shame really.

    You worked with Cesar???? Wow. How awesome is that!
    I'm one often guilty of the Affection -> Affection -> Affection thing. But to a certain extent it's good. For my dogs anyway. Or so that I think anyway LOL
    I had a friend over yesterday and all my pits wanted to do was cuddle up and give him 'sugar' -- I've always taught my dogs to kiss ya know. "Come give me some of that good sugar Dymyn." And never fails - she comes running ready to give kisses and affection.

    Much better than saying, "Sick 'em girl." And she takes off after somebody, she in territorial mode...
    Yeah. I could do with some Cesar Milan training. But at the end of the day - I think the point still remains = you teach your animals to be loving and affectionate, and that's what you'll generally see from them. Still makes me say - vicious pitbulls is not a breed problem. It's a people problem.

    J.
     
  16. Steve

    Steve Administrator

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    I think that it is taking in account all the other breeds not listed in the chart. World wide there is probably 400 breeds of dogs so I'm sure the stats could be similar in the US alone.
     
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  17. R44

    R44 Asperger's Network? Absolutely.

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    Only once.

    Rules, boundaries and limitations. It's not good to pander your pooch. They then think they're the alpha dog. Do you feed them first too?

    Yes, with rules, boundaries and limitations.
     
  18. PoetJC

    PoetJC ⚧ Jacquii: Black Kween of TSSN ⚧

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    I teach them that biting is simply NOT okay. Nobody wants a bitey ass dog - so instead - I teach them to give sugar. As a direct effect - most everyone who encounters my dogs go away saying, "Those are the friendliest, most affectionate dogs ever." -- This is what people tell me about my pits. Well... Also got the comment that, "These dogs don't realize how big they are." Because Dymyn sometimes thinks she's a lapdog. (People usually think right off the bat = big dog. bad dog. OMG - that's a pitbull!) But both Dymyn and Blu are just extremely friendly because I've raised them to be.

    I know I've single-handedly changed many negative opinions my friends and acquaintances had about pitbulls. Pits have always given me plenty of love - so if I can change even on perspective from negative to positive - then I think I've paid a little bit back to the breed who's always been loyal and friendly to me.

    J.
     
  19. R44

    R44 Asperger's Network? Absolutely.

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    So you have rules, boundaries and limitations, then. :)
     
  20. Brad

    Brad Meh

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    They do latch on hard but I assure you a swift knock between the eyes will cause them to release their grip. You have to aim for a certain spot directly between the eyes since the rest of the skull is so hard. Basically what you're doing is hitting them directly where the brain sits in their skull which causes a shock to them and causes them to turn whatever they have a grip on loose.

    I'm going to assume your cousin didn't aim for the correct spot and punched with so much force that he broke his own hand. It doesn't take much force to break your own hand when punching a hard target.
     
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