Looks like some people are trying to be overnight millionaires selling Xenforo 2 mods!

Discussion in 'XenForo' started by Soulwatcher, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

    I've been there myself as an end-user where I needed to file a claim for extremely bad handling of add-ons by a well known developer, who I won't name but is quiet now.. and did so as he point blank refused to help on anything even though we're talking custom add-ons and paid over & above. But I would never personally do such a thing 'just because'.
    Indeed it's my understanding that PP are now more supportive on chargebacks and ask for a lot more info now on both sides, but still it's sad to read that so many still try and get away with it. It's no different to stealing is it, as once the code is released - that's it, your work is out there.

    FWIW with regards to add-on prices, I think it depends what it is and what the support is like and so on.
    If for me it's a must-have feature then I don't usually think twice about the price.
    If it's something I'd like but can live without, then I will usually think on it for a month or so.

    However I will say that 9 times of 10, I have never refused to buy an add-on that I need/want based on the pricing structure. If you want it, it's good, the support is there - then surely you'd be happy to pay for it?
    No different to anything IRL. You can have a cheap n nasty McDonald's burger, or a decent dinner somewhere nice.
  2. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

    I also consider the time that a developer has to put into it. Some features that are essential to me, can be knocked out in half an hour, while others which may be less essential take weeks to develop. The latter will obviously cost more.

    I also take into account the effort a developer invests in general. For example I have bought extra licenses from developers to support their amazing efforts. (If I have funds available to do so) I find that supporting developers works motivating and shows appreciation, which often results in really cool stuff that in turn is appreciated by your community.

    In the end what matters is the effect of the features on your community. Developers can help you build great things. IMO money is just the appreciation of their efforts. At least that is how I see it.
  3. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

    Yes, completely agree. For instance - we had a superb style made for us which took months to do, by RussRuss & SteveSteve and of course, it cost a lot of money. Am I happy? Of course I am... Was it worth every penny? 100%.
    I've had custom add-ons made for me where I have paid the balance and something extra (a usual thing of mine) to show appreciation of their efforts. I think it's all too easy to click "buy/download" and not think twice about what's gone into it and the support that's there too.
    Now, that doesn't mean it's the case for all devs - far from it, but most of the ones who put their heart and soul into it will be like that with support and also listen to advice you have to offer too/suggestions etc.
    If we work hard we expect to get rewarded for it (paid). Creating add-ons is no different. Yes the ole days where mods were for free are long gone, but nostalgia and being nice doesn't help put food on the table.
    If my £300 or £30 helps goes towards the costs of every day life for the people who help me - then I am happy.
    We all want to earn from working, so why should be being a dev be any different?
    Unless of course you are a scammer just out to rip people off and offer zero support. In this case you don't deserve a sausage off me.
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  4. Alfa1

    Alfa1 Moderator

    One thing that I find problematic about cheap medium - large addons (where development time is much higher than can be recouped from sales) is that the developer inevitably comes in a situation where they have a lot of demanding customers and there is not enough income to keep supporting customers or put food on the table. Thats very problematic for both developer and customer and releases will generally stop and the developer can leave. Unless prices are raised to a realistic level, which includes renewals.

    If I see a large addon with a very low renewal fee then I worry about the future of the addon and may consider not to buy it. For this reason I am happy that some developers have adapted their prices to a sustainable level.

    This is exactly the opposite from what the OP is stating.
  5. haqzore

    haqzore Habitué

    Exactly the reason I avoid 3rd party if at all possible, and love scripts that include more OOTB via 1st party devs.
  6. we_are_borg

    we_are_borg Moderator

    I dont make a dime with my site so for me personal it’s high, that said i pay it with pleasure because its very powerful software, good support, Bob listens to you when you ask for a feature or improvement. That is stuff i pay for and i dont mind it all. Like Steve says for those addons it low price to pay its the most powerful software i have seen for XF,
  7. Maddox

    Maddox Moderator

    There are three developers out there that I have been happy to pay out for; bob, SnogSnog and SteveSteve / RussRuss add-ons/styles are excellent and so is the support and I was happy to pay up for their wares; however I am not going to go down the same route paying again for the same add-ons for XF2. I know Bob is not charging for any upgrades as long as you continue with your support renewals and that is a real pleasure to see. I don't mind paying for a style at all as that is the first piece of eye-candy visitors will see and if things look nice, they may go further and investigate and, hopefully, register.

    I will not pay for add-ons I purchased previously from anyone else. I understand that XF2 requires a rewrite for add-ons, but I presume that the amount of time spent on such will be minimal compared to doing something new from the ground up. I believe a small upgrade fee would be far better received than having to shell out the full amount. But that's up to the developer - if they want my continued support then they will have to show some kind of appreciation for the support they have received in the past; it's a two-way street, or at least is ought to be IMHO.

    I would like to know (but perhaps never will) how many add-on developers do so for a living; or is it just a sideline (call it a hobby if you will) to supplement their otherwise full-time occupation.

  8. Ryan Ashbrook

    Ryan Ashbrook IPS Developer

    If it's anything like moving from IP.Board 3.x to IPS4, then it is essentially the same thing. I'm not familiar with XF1 or XF2, but I would assume that code is not compatible between the two versions, so a complete rewrite would be required to update an add-on to be compatible with XF2.
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  9. Belazor

    Belazor DragonByte Technologies Programming Director

    This presumption is wrong :)
    If you are writing native XF2 code, there is not a single line of code that can be preserved from the XF1 version.

    EDIT: Just to clarify, I understand that you believe that rewriting an application is faster than writing it from scratch, but it's simply not true. Not only do you have to re-create every line of code, you also have to learn new syntax.
    You could argue that the time spent on the XF2 version is less than the combined time spent on the initial XF1 release and all the XF1 updates, but that's a logical fallacy because we're talking about time spent writing it from scratch.

    Since every paradigm has changed and all the syntax has changed, you will not be spending less time on the XF2 version than you would if you deleted the XF1 version from existence and started coding the XF1 version again (with all your memories of the XF1 version intact), which is the important metric here.

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  10. sanction9

    sanction9 Participant

    Since Andy's addon's, collectively, might very well be used more than any other single developer's, and since I've yet to see a single case of anyone proving that any of his addon's could definitely be linked to a hack, I will agree with this. Not to mention that he's already been verbally spanked by the XF team, and he's almost surely a better and more careful developer for XF than he was a few years ago - I would assume! And $25 for all his stuff...well, you can't beat that price.

    I understand some people's frustrations with the current 2.0 addon pricing, especially in cases where re-adding just a handful of the features they enjoyed with 1.5 might now easily cost them 2 or 3 times the price they pay for XF itself - and probably on a yearly basis - but as others have pointed out, these addon's are having to be built again from the ground up. But it's also probably the cost of being an early adopter. If you wait long enough, you'll probably find more of these addon features being offered for free by others, or at least at a lesser price. So if you absolutely must have this or that feature only available via addon, and money is an issue, I'd recommend waiting at least a few more months.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  11. Maddox

    Maddox Moderator

    Whilst it may be necessary to familiarise yourself with the new syntax (which again I will presume that you will have knowledge of, being a developer and keeping up with current trends) the base line of what you are re-writing will be the same logical progression as a previous version. You know what it has to do and the how to do it, so it's not something that has to be be thought of, tested and tried from scratch - you know the in's and out's of the add-on it's just a matter of writing it out again in the new syntax, which, from the comments made by the XF developers, is supposed to be easier to work with, hence the reason why they developed XF2.

    I'm not implying that it is easy, rather that it will be (or should be according to the XF developers) easier and take less time. I will, again, use my own experiences as a website developer; I have to keep up with changes such as Flex and Display:Grid - all new, but not difficult to adapt to. So I presume that as developers you will be doing the same as new ways of working come about.

    The discussion about developers is now becoming circular - so I will make this my last comment on the subject. The bottom line, for me, is that I will not pay the full price again for something I have already purchased because the goal posts have been moved. Developers expect appreciation for the work they do, and I am fully on-board with this, but clients should also be given something back in return for their loyalty and their hard earned cash and not penalised for the changes that have taken place.

    Just as developers cannot expect to become millionaires from their work, clients are not millionaires either and have to work out what is and isn't affordable and base their priorities on what they need to spend whatever money they earn on; especially in a niche that is on it's knees compared to 10/15 years ago.

  12. The Sandman

    The Sandman Administrator

    Porting of add-ons from XF1 to XF 2 requires extensive recoding. Of course there will be a learning curve and the developers will become more adept at it over time, but it will still require a lot of work.
    This is a blanket statement that doesn't take into account the price paid for the initial purchase and whether or not there are renewal fees for continued use of the add-on. If the add-on was priced very low to begin with, and/or there were no incremental renewals after to support ongoing development, then IMO you should expect to pay for the XF2 version. For higher priced add-ons with ongoing renewals you might expect little or no cost for the XF2 version.
  13. Paul M

    Paul M Dr Pepper Addict

    Which is absolutely your choice of course, but if thats the price being charged, you wont get the software.
    I honestly dont see the issue here, everyone has the choice to either pay the price, or not, and do without the addon.

    No one is forcing anyone to buy addons, be it for XF, VB, IPS or any other forum software.
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  14. Anton Chigurh

    Anton Chigurh Ultimate Badass

    Orrrrr.... learn to code!
  15. Paul M

    Paul M Dr Pepper Addict

    Thats true :)
  16. Shin Ryoku

    Shin Ryoku Fan

    I'm really not seeing many that I would call overpriced. At least, not ones which would interest me.
  17. zappaDPJ

    zappaDPJ Administrator

    Unless there's a monopoly involved I wouldn't be too worried about add-on pricing. It's early days, give it a little time and market forces will prevail. Products that don't provide value will fall by the wayside. In any case high prices often have hidden benefits such as attracting more competitors into the market place. That in turn is likely to drive prices down.
  18. Russ

    Russ Administrator

    Speaking of chargebacks...


    Luckily folks like this are rather rare.
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  19. Bionic Rooster

    Bionic Rooster Enthusiast

    Red Flag "Line 2" atse3_mm_bing_net_th_2620d75fcf2e381cda9da4d055ddc897._.jpg
    I can't believe that anyone in your crew would say he got scammed and you didn't care.
  20. Ummagumma

    Ummagumma Adherent

    There's a part of me that would want to chin him for that. :whistle: Cheeky sod. :mad:
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