Discussion in 'XenForo' started by Joeychgo, Feb 16, 2018.
I get about one of these a week....
I get messages from members telling me they can't log in...
But back on topic I do prefer that conversations don't have limits on the number of participants whereas personal/private messages by definition should be a two way conversation and usually are. I guess it's a case that old habits are hard to break.
Yep, I get users who say they can't log in, and people posting to ask how to post. I'm creating a custom page to serve as a complete guide to posting I know no one will read too. I have a hard to miss checklist of things directly above the editor users should do when posting that routinely gets ignored, and a browser popup to discourage trampling the help given by other that is regularly ignored.
I do like XF's conversation paradigm, and the ability to invite others to the conversation, but it did take a little getting used to.
I've generally added the XF's userguide (as seen in the attached .pdf file) in the help section as a custom help page. No doubt it needs to be updated to be better representative of the latest XF 1.x versions and made compatible for XF 2.x ... It could be helpful if someone wants to update it. It's actually been on my todo list for months - just haven't gotten around to it yet.
This thread is hilarious - because I've received several of the same *conversations* asking about how to PM or members actually posting new threads asking how to actually post a thread. It's ridiculous. And I'm like WTF?! Stoopid questions... But pointing them to the userguide has generally been helpful anyway. And it's easier to simply point users to a link than to get frustrated and/or annoyed by the stupid questions LOL
As for the topic though, Conversations offer much more intuitive and full-featured functionality for users than the PM functionality in most forum scripts... IF users would use common sense
The concept, yes, the name, no. If you browse the old threads over at XF you'll find that the name is a contention that has been going on for years.
Is that something that you did for your site? I don't recall seeing that one before (or likely have forgotten about it because I remember somebody working on a guide a few years back but don't recall who & where).
Sure, I like conversations more then PMs -- I just wish the name was or could be PMs - everyone understands that.
Yes, I know. Its stupid. The easy fix is to simply have a phrase I can easily change to whatever I want. Private Messages, Messages, Conversations, whatever.
Welcome to my world...
I have tutorials written up. But you know what, some people have been using forums (ie vbulletin) for years. Some of them aren't going to read through "instructions" LOL
When I asked this user -- "What do you think this is" He said: Its a PC, I wanna send a PM.
I need a drink....
It's a guide that was shared on XF.com several years ago.
I forget who exactly posted it - but it was shared with the community. I had *another* version that I'd customized for my poetry forum but couldn't find the file. And for some reason - the version I uploaded to TAZ is the version that's currently on my poetry forum. Eh... Who knows - one day will get to revising it for my own forum. It's at least a decent template if someone wants to edit the content to fit their XF forums though.
And ha! RTFM!!!!! Yeah right. LOL
And I know... It's all about the phrase naming, which as you've noted can easily be fixed by editing the phrase to whatever you like. And HONESTLY - I'm not even sure why the KAM fellas felt the need to rename it anyway. I think it may have been just wanted to do something new? IDK - but it's frustrating having to explain over and over that Private Messages (PMs) are now referred to as Conversations. It's the same damn principle - but only XF functionality is much more full-featured and intuitive than old vB PMs. For some bizarre reason though - it's like some folks can't wrap their heads around the name-change concept. So annoying arg...
About that drink though... Time for a glass of wine!
My first guess - - so they could say "See, our forum is nothing like vbulletin, we don't even have PMs, we have an entirely different conversation system"
YES!!!!!!!!!!!! It is!
Tell me about it..
Yup. I was thinking along the same lines. They wanted to highlight it as a more robust system.
I think it would have been better to use a terminology more widely known though - perhaps like Direct Messages. At least the word "message" would be in there as to not confuse the hell outta some folks. But then again - I wonder if it was intentional and they're having a wee bit of a laugh behind the scenes. Because as Kevin noted:
Eh - It could be a good laugh if it weren't so damn annoying the back-and-forth about why rename a system we've known as PMs for years now.
PMs to DMs doesn't seem quite as complicated LOL
No, I think it was for legal reasons mostly... Remember, vB was alleging they stole work product.
Ah yes... How could I forget. Seems almost a two lifetimes ago that vB & XF were battling in court.
By changing "PM" to "Conversation" though ... Could the lawsuit have truly been the ultimatum for the phrase change? IDK... Interesting point of contention though!
Eh, the idea that the lawsuit inspired this change is an interesting one, but I'm not sure it's true. Even a completely non technical judge would probably think something's amiss with a company trying to pass off a very similar feature as different based only on the choice of wording. Seems like the kind of 'wording technicality' that tech geeks think works in a court of law but actually doesn't.
Don’t remember the version but at the very beginning it was “Private Conversation “. The lawsuit wasn’t in play yet so it wasn’t the reason for the naming convention. A private message is shared between 2 people usually but a conversation can be had by many.
yeah, I know. They love to make that "Private" argument. Fact is, its as private as the conversation participants want it to be. Nothing is 100% private. They can listen in on phone calls, emails, etc.
Regardless, this technicality that tech geeks rely on only serves to make things more complicated for non tech users, pushing them to platforms like facebook.
Forums need to learn to be as user friendly as possible --- for both users and for forum owners. Facebook groups exist because anyone can throw on up with just a few clicks.
You can go through and change the phrases, this example is why there are phrases.
We get daily questions which can be answered by 'What does the big fat banner at the top of your screen say?'
Multiple times a week we get posts 'How do I post?'
I get a lot of conversations from members who try to post in forum.
We did not have this issue on vbulletin, because mobile users who don't understand anything but Facebook could not make it in anyway. On XenForo they can and they find it too difficult...
Anyhow, conversations. I renamed them to Direct Messages just as I had it on vbulletin. (DM) Direct Messages is better than Private Messages, because we have monitors for spam and illegal activity, so its not 100% private. For such things I had an addon coded to search phrases and replace all instances of a term in a few seconds. Works like a charm and keeps me from editing hundreds of phrases for things like this.
Private as long it's not public.