Circular point scoring - you're obviously convinced there is no problem so it's a futile discussion - you're right, I and many others are wrong, you're wrong and everyone else is right and around and around it goes and still the problem remains that new forums starting out have little or no chance of succeeding in their expected goals. This happens time and time again and until people realise that forums are not the popular platform they once were and no one is prepared to address the situation we end up where we are now, going around in circles and ending up going nowhere. For those who have vibrant forums and have been for some time, good luck to you - at this point in time you are the exception and not the rule. I'm a great advocate of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' - if forum software isn't broken and doesn't need fixing then we are in a whole lot of trouble for future admins who want to try their hand. Go to any of the forums on here that state 'show us your forum' (any platform) and go back 12 months and see how many are still alive and, more importantly, how many are actually vibrant and active. It's a sad time - a sign of the times - and as long as old school protagonists insist there isn't a problem then we will forever being going in circles. I'm done now and will not continue in a futile debate.