30,000 reasons you need push notifications, even if they dont work on iOS

Discussion in 'Forum Software Development' started by pierce, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    upload_2017-1-11_8-14-20.png

    Here is annual growth:

    upload_2017-1-11_8-15-11.png

    I never reached 6,000 android app installs on Tapatalk until i killed it.

    I've been sitting on this as it doesn't work on iOS, but it does work, and works very well for android.

    The browser does not need to be open on your phone. But the browser does need to be opened on desktop.

    I am also holding off on re-developing it for XF2.... before going public with the addon.

    So this counts the total number of installs but the active users I can send notifications stands at 28,000.

    The power of this is, if I had a motivation to alert nearly 30,000 people to something I could.

    I've attached growth for the last year.
     
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  2. mysiteguy

    mysiteguy Habitué

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    I don't think many people realize the power such a add-on adds to a forum. I've had users ask about some sort of "live" notification system for while, but the previous add-on I know of required keeping the page open, not terribly useful nor real "push."
     
  3. BrandonSheley

    BrandonSheley loving life

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    So this is a mobile application or browser?
    Either way, nice work. It's something I've been preaching to the big forum devs for years now. ;)

    *just did a quick google search for kicks.. I see post from 2011 and likely later where I've said forums needed this..lol*
     
  4. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    its done entirely on the browser side.

    You get a pop up asking if you want to allow notifications, you tap yes and then the browser takes care of the rest.

    Attached screenshot of example notice.
     

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  5. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    This is now 40,000 reasons.
     

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  6. woody

    woody eternal noobie

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    Is this released anywhere?

    Excellent results, BTW!
     
  7. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    I'm helping a few as the mod is rough around the edges (hard coded values).

    I'll give it out individualy to those accepting that.

    I only have it for xenforo....
     
  8. woody

    woody eternal noobie

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    I have a "small" userbase of 10,000 active each month on XenForo....also have a smaller XF forum that might be better for testing.
     
  9. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    Active members?

    That's pretty big.

    One thing you can do with this is retarget guests who visited.

    Example:

    User visits forum.

    Week later send all guest visitors of that sub forum a link about a popular thread or conversation.

    I am more than happy to help go through a team viewer session.

    It's not that complicated just requires small bits of editing.

    I am also thinking of doing a tutorial....
     
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  10. Solidus

    Solidus Stupid machines!

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    OneSignal. I use it on WordPress.
     
  11. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    It's incredible.

    Again apple iOS to me is the last part of this puzzle. Once they implement some form of service worker I'm sure onesignal will implement it eagerly.

    What I don't get is that safari desktop was one of the first to do this. But the last mobile browser.

    It's so last it's still listed under consideration. Now I appreciate apple may be developing other technology on the spec that will enhance their notices to be better than everyone elses... They must have some wisdom to their decision.

    I'm one small person, but I am sure all the big newspaper online sites really really want browser notices.
     
  12. iamacyborg

    iamacyborg Enthusiast

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    OneSignal might be free, but it's also selling all your user information, FWIW.

    Web push is incredibly powerful though, obviously, it's also one of those channels that has to be handled very carefully, it can be extremely annoying for users when they're receiving endless messages from a few sites.
     
  13. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    As is Google, Facebook, your ISP, your phone manufacturer, advertising agencies, computer manufacturer etc
     
  14. iamacyborg

    iamacyborg Enthusiast

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    Right, but your users might feel differently if they knew you were using software that sold all their browsing behaviour on your site.
     
  15. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    Same exact thing can be said for Adsense.

    I'm not finding serious negativity for onesignal online yet. But I'll look at alternatives.
     
  16. iamacyborg

    iamacyborg Enthusiast

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    I think most people probably aren't particularly aware about it and how they can provide a free service. Definitely worth looking at other solutions though OneSignal do also offer a paid service without the data collection which is worth a look.
     
  17. vbresults

    vbresults Enthusiast

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    This was confusing to me too until yesterday when I realized what Apple is doing. They are using desktop Safari Push Notifications as a test bed for iOS notifications since the desktop user-base is significantly smaller. When the test is done, they copy and paste into iOS.

    In all likelihood, we will not see service worker support anytime soon, but Apple will integrate iOS push notifications in a vendor-specific way, as with desktop. It wouldn't make sense to build out the SPN architecture in the developer center etc. and then use something totally different for iOS.

    The same way they are using APNS for SPN, they will use SPN for iOS. My guess from the information I've found is Q4 of this year, likely with iOS 11.
     
  18. pierce

    pierce Habitué

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    I know it won't be until a major version as safari only gets updates with major version numbers.

    It's still listed under consideration.

    Screenshot_20170517-200802.png

    So I'm going to say ios12 or more.

    I know and see a lot of news organisations starting to prompt me for notifications now. Maybe these companies will continue to put pressure on apple?

    A blog or website doesn't/shouldn't need an app. But app store optimization (like web seo) is important.

    Progressive web apps are starting to become the way forward for android users. But intergration into the play store is very important.

    http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/04/24/progressive-web-apps-allowed-play-store/

    It's obvious apple doesn't want apps in its iOS store that just frame a web page that you can then use to get money without their cut.

    What is the way forward?

    I don't have a crystal ball.
     
  19. vbresults

    vbresults Enthusiast

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    Again, they implemented it in desktop Safari without service workers per-se, and there's no reason to believe they will do it differently in iOS.

    If we were waiting for service worker implementation, I'd say iOS 12+, but we aren't, so I don't.

    Apple has chosen to implement Safari Push Notifications in a proprietary way, instead of following the IETF Web Push Protocol.
     
  20. R0binHood

    R0binHood Adherent

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    I don't know about the technicalities, but purely from a business standpoint I can see why Apple would want to hold out for as long as possible before allowing native push to mobile safari.

    The app store ecosystem is a huge selling point for iPhones. Some people will buy the phones just for the quality of the ios versions of apps.

    They have a huge amount of say over what goes into those apps, what both the developer and user can do in those apps and how that affects the operation of the phone.

    Plus they of course get a huge 30% cut of all in app transactions. We've seen how turnkey and gonative users have had to block access to user upgrades as a result of this, so they stay compliant with apples guidelines.

    How many forum admins and blog/news site admins have started forking over $100 a year to Apple to get a native app on the store to get push to their readers devices? (In addition to the app/dev fees to actually make the app and keep the iOS dev market healthy)

    The last thing Apple wants is encouraging developers to bail on native apps and switch to pure web apps as they'll lose their cut of the flow of money.

    You see this with their desire to keep web wrappers out of the store. I'm guessing one big reason for this is with a web wrapper it's seen as too much free reign to travel anywhere on the internet and process monetary transactions through a browser instead of the users Apple ID.

    Fully native used to be a massive user experience upgrade compared to a web app interface. Every year that gap is closing though, what with massive jumps in hardware specs being released every 12 months combined with fast movIng improvements in web browsers and other web technology.

    Push is one of the last few pieces of necessary native app functionality that nearly every app utilises, that isn't reproducible in a mobile safari web app.

    For Apple, what benefit do they have from implimenting this? All I can see at the moment is a very big reason for them to delay the feature for as long as possible, which isn't good for us.

    Unless they somehow try to monetise the push functionality of Safari, which honestly wouldn't surprise me if they do.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
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