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At no point in this discussion has it been suggested that anyone is exempt from following the rules.
Having members with neuro-difficulties - how do you know and what do you do?
- Thread starter Lisa
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Saying someone is 'mentally challenged' is perhaps not the best of terms to use. I think 'intellectual disability or 'learning difficulties' would be more appropriate.
Aside from that, your analogy is a little flawed. If a judge has reasonable grounds to believe an accused person is unable to defend against a charge of murder, that person may after psychiatric evaluation be declared unfit to stand trial.
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its called identity politics, there is an actual name for it.I would appreciate you refraining from making assumptions about my political views, which for your information are not what you assume. It's this kind of thinking that leads to bad management of people - and politics need not play a part in this discussion. There is no political agenda in believing that not all people are the same, but all people ought to be valued equally until they prove themselves otherwise. No one is asking anyone to be judge and jury, there is no judgement that can be applied until you have all the facts and deeming all people to be treated equally is actually condemning some people to a potentially ill-founded judgement because not all people are the same.
There is a difference between treating people equally and valuing people equally. You may want to consider that, along with your assumptions before making a flawed judgement about the 'rhetoric'.
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I am referring to an overall state of cognitive disability, not specific learning difficulties.
Intellectual disability alone wouldn't qualify someone for a "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense.
This.jpg
Yup. I was a newbie when i first got on the internet. But for some reason,when i first joined the internet,people thought i was on the internet a long time. I remember way back in the 90's when the internet was accessible,long before the dotcomboom and the net stopped being niche. Of course i didn't officially start posting on the internet till about 2008.
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Relating to this thread, which I personally thought had become an interesting discussion until it was closed.. .but we won't get into my thoughts on that in case I get disciplined..... I might like it a little too much and then things would go rapidly downhill and no one needs that.....
https://theadminzone.com/threads/wh...jects-that-some-forums-seem-cool-with.150004/
As admins/moderators, dealing with "problem members" is a daily chore that most of us, I'm sure, would prefer not to have to do. But, have you ever asked yourself whether the way someone is behaving is actually because they're trolling, breaking the rules on purpose or simply don't understand what they're doing is wrong/irritating/not appropriate for your particular site?
Do you take the time to find out whether a member is a trouble maker or someone with neuro-difficulties (Aspergers, ASD, etc)?
Should admins take a bit more responsibility in finding out about their members or is it a case of "break my rules, you're done. I don't care whether you don't actually understand what you're doing wrong?"
Seems the ban reason they gave was a troll. I don't think i was a troll. I think a troll to me,would be something like this
Or what some trolls been doing to Chris Chan, yes that chris chan.
Or what some trolls did to a Brony to get them very upset and such.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ternet-trolls-tormented-days-threw-train.html
Or this post that this guy made about a musical genre
https://www.talkclassical.com/5741-looking-like-metalhead.html#post57946
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You are clearly feeling a sense of injustice which is disproportional to being banned from a forum. It happens to us all but the overwhelming majority of us will curse and move on. Why waste all that energy on a forum that doesn't for whatever reason want you as a member. If the ban was unjust you shouldn't want to be a member there anyway.
This topic is very timely. We're having an issue on our forum where an adult member with a traumatic brain injury recently joined. She referenced her medical condition in one of her posts, which is how we know. I am really looking for some advice on how to deal with this fairly and compassionately.
This member is very nice and agreeable, but is a prolific poster and is causing a lot of disruption. She posts random Facebook-style status updates throughout the forums, copying and pasting the exact same stuff to several new threads. By her own admission, she doesn't understand thread format or how to find the discussions she started, so she posts replies as new threads all over the place. It's clear she doesn't comprehend how a forum works. The moderators and I have tried to explain it to her several times and been very patient, but she doesn't seem to remember the discussions a few minutes later and goes right back to the same behavior.
Last night, she reported her own post and said she shouldn't have joined the forum because she just doesn't understand it. I had no sooner breathed a sigh of relief (thinking the issue had solved itself) when she must have forgotten her decision and was back to posting again.
In her case, it's clearly a comprehension issue and not deliberate bad behavior. Thankfully, our members understand there is some sort of mental handicap and have been patient so far, but it's really not fair to the community to let this continue. This member is wreaking havoc and running myself and the moderators ragged trying to clean up the mess she's leaving everywhere. Because of her mental disability, she's not able to retain the instructions we give her and we're in a never-ending loop of correcting and explaining, only to have it forgotten five minutes later. I don't believe there's any hope of improvement.
I think it's clear we need this member to move on. My question is, what is the most compassionate way to make this happen? Should I approach her directly and ask her not to come back? That sounds so cruel and I would feel terrible (given the situation) and there's not really any guarantee she'll comprehend or remember not to come back. Another option is to use a "miserable users" type option so the site just won't load when she tries to access. That would spare her feelings and prevent her from accessing, but seems a little sneaky.
I would love to hear your advice on this.
This member is very nice and agreeable, but is a prolific poster and is causing a lot of disruption. She posts random Facebook-style status updates throughout the forums, copying and pasting the exact same stuff to several new threads. By her own admission, she doesn't understand thread format or how to find the discussions she started, so she posts replies as new threads all over the place. It's clear she doesn't comprehend how a forum works. The moderators and I have tried to explain it to her several times and been very patient, but she doesn't seem to remember the discussions a few minutes later and goes right back to the same behavior.
Last night, she reported her own post and said she shouldn't have joined the forum because she just doesn't understand it. I had no sooner breathed a sigh of relief (thinking the issue had solved itself) when she must have forgotten her decision and was back to posting again.
In her case, it's clearly a comprehension issue and not deliberate bad behavior. Thankfully, our members understand there is some sort of mental handicap and have been patient so far, but it's really not fair to the community to let this continue. This member is wreaking havoc and running myself and the moderators ragged trying to clean up the mess she's leaving everywhere. Because of her mental disability, she's not able to retain the instructions we give her and we're in a never-ending loop of correcting and explaining, only to have it forgotten five minutes later. I don't believe there's any hope of improvement.
I think it's clear we need this member to move on. My question is, what is the most compassionate way to make this happen? Should I approach her directly and ask her not to come back? That sounds so cruel and I would feel terrible (given the situation) and there's not really any guarantee she'll comprehend or remember not to come back. Another option is to use a "miserable users" type option so the site just won't load when she tries to access. That would spare her feelings and prevent her from accessing, but seems a little sneaky.
I would love to hear your advice on this.
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You know this member from having interaction with her, so if it would help write down (include images if you can) what she needs to do so she can print it out and read it every time before she posts. It appears that her issues are remembering, so that written text can help her to formulate what is expected of her.
Obviously, you have the greater good to consider and if I dare quote Spock "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" so give her a little more leeway and then explain to her that whilst she is welcome there are limits of acceptability. Instead of banning her, give her a 'time out' period so she can reflect on what she is doing and attempt to induct herself into what is expected in regards to forum etiquette. After a break (your choice as to how long), reach out to her and ask if she is ready to return and understands what is expected of her in terms of understanding what a forum is and how it works differently to SM. If that fails then you have done as much as you can.
Compassion in these situations is paramount and patience is a virtue that is seldom exercised so kudos to you and your members for being understanding and I hope that you can work with this lady to a mutually satisfactory ending.
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If you're on XenForo, user discouragement is the way to go.
Thank you both for your feedback.
That's something we hadn't thought of. Great idea! She did mention printing things out to help her remember, so maybe this will work. I don't think we can spend a large amount of time on it, but maybe cover the basics and see if that helps.
This particular community is in IPS, but I believe there is a similar add-on I can install. It's worth considering if the documentation doesn't help.
That's something we hadn't thought of. Great idea! She did mention printing things out to help her remember, so maybe this will work. I don't think we can spend a large amount of time on it, but maybe cover the basics and see if that helps.
This particular community is in IPS, but I believe there is a similar add-on I can install. It's worth considering if the documentation doesn't help.
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Let's hope that it works and helps this lady to become a productive member of your community, which may help her to get over the trauma suffered.
I think this kind of thing, in this instance, would be horrendous and most likely increase stress levels and anxiety on the victim who obviously has enough to cope with. If you don't want someone on your site, tell them to leave or ban them, but at least do it honestly without resorting to trickery.
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Reading this I had a few thoughts:
- I don't know if the conditions that people claim they have are real.
- If I just take people's word, unruly people could make false claims as excuses for poor behavior
- Even if they could provide proof, I wouldn't want to ask for it. I certainly don't want to store medical information on my server
- If I was accused of discrimination (regardless of merit of the claim), being aware of the disability will matter so I don't really want to know.
- Even if I do know, I don't have expertise or a good policy in place on how to interact with people who need special care for medical reasons.
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This is where you use your judgement - sometimes people will offer proof without you asking for it and you would not necessarily be storing medical information on your server if they did provide proof in written form as you can delete it.
You don't need to be aware to be accused of discrimination, but if you were aware you would be less likely to discriminate unless it was your intention to discriminate regardless. You don't need to have an expertise or a policy, you just use good judgement and exercise some understanding, compassion and patience to the best of your ability. You set your own limits on how much leeway you will give before taking more action; it's called being proactive rather than reactive. Sadly this is where society is fast becoming colder and disassociated with real people reducing them to a number in the online cyber world of one's and zeroes.
Sadly, society is fast becoming victims, poor me, I'm exempt from the rules because I have condition XYZ, easily triggered, identity-based rather than character based (sadly, the opposite of MLK's dream of people being judged by their character rather than their skin color), etc.
I don't care if someone has impulse control issues, drug problems, posts while drinking, NPD, schizophrenia, bi-polar, or whatever it is. If it disrupts my community, they'll be dealt with and excuses don't exempt them. I'm not their family or offline friend who might want to put up or help them with their issues. There's nothing wrong with having problems, we're all human and subject to have problems - it is not okay to make my problems someone else's problem.
I don't care if someone has impulse control issues, drug problems, posts while drinking, NPD, schizophrenia, bi-polar, or whatever it is. If it disrupts my community, they'll be dealt with and excuses don't exempt them. I'm not their family or offline friend who might want to put up or help them with their issues. There's nothing wrong with having problems, we're all human and subject to have problems - it is not okay to make my problems someone else's problem.
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No one is saying anyone is 'exempt' from the rules. This has already been stated in here so there should be no need to repeat it unless you haven't read the full topic and saw the post that stated that 'exemption' was not mentioned.
There is a difference between making someone exempt and attempting to understand their issues and help them to fit in. If everything you try fails, then at least you can say you tried. No one wants disruption in their communities, but therein lies the keyword 'community'; if communities ignored those who have issues and castigated them for being a damn nuisance it would be a pretty shameful community and one which I personally would not want to be a part of.
As I mentioned earlier, society is becoming colder and less tolerant of others and I find that both lamentable and shameful. If the shoe were on the other foot ...
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This, unfortunately, is a fact. It has become almost "cool" to have a mental illness, or at least to claim one. And you may get some people who will try to use real or imagined conditions to justify bad behaviour. How do you know?
You don't. All you can do is decide for yourself how you want to be wrong. You can choose to adhere strictly to the forum rules, knowing that you'll likely alienate or mistreat members who have real mental health conditions, or you can choose to treat every claim as legitimate, knowing a few members are likely playing you.
I have read the full thread, more than once along the way, and thank you for castigating me with "no need to repeat it" for expressing similar opinions to those others expressed. Thank you for schooling me and properly shaming me with intolerance, lol. (that was a joke, in case it doesn't come across that way in text).
There is a difference between making someone exempt and attempting to understand their issues and help them to fit in. If everything you try fails, then at least you can say you tried. No one wants disruption in their communities, but therein lies the keyword 'community'; if communities ignored those who have issues and castigated them for being a damn nuisance it would be a pretty shameful community and one which I personally would not want to be a part of.
As I mentioned earlier, society is becoming colder and less tolerant of others and I find that both lamentable and shameful. If the shoe were on the other foot ...
Each online community has its unique culture and when in Rome, do as the Romans do. People "fit in" by.... fitting in. Trying to make a round hole square is not going to make the square peg round. I express understanding that they may have issues only if they bring it up, but avoid discussion about their issues as if it has any bearing on abiding by the community rules and its overall culture. That doesn't make me colder and less tolerant. It means I have a consistent application of site policy.
My son is autistic, and this article is spot on:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/why-children-with-autism-deserve-rules-and-discipline-260156
I don't treat people with mental disabilities and/or conditions with kid gloves because no matter how well-meaning the intent it doesn't treat them as equals.
Signed,
Mr. Lamentable
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