Allow a gun pics thread on a politics free photography forum?

Tecca · Nov 18, 2017

Shin Ryoku said:
I’m sure that everyone who only sees that side would agree with you that it isn’t about an inability to see the other side .

Right, much like the way you're only seeing the other side of it. Gotcha.

You see how that works? Pointing fingers doesn't really help discussion. Kinda just trying to insult people at this point.

Oh yeah:

haqzore · Nov 18, 2017

Shin Ryoku said:
I personally see both sides of the issue. I spent more time explaining the "other side" of the issue because most here only seem capable of understanding one side. That inability of most to see beyond their own feelings has been well demonstrated in this thread, and that in itself has been most helpful to me.

I disagree.

You stated that a person owning the gun they post a picture of automatically makes it a political picture. Which I feel is rediculous.

By that same measure, someone posting a picture of the church they attend automatically makes that a religious push. But somehow you disagree with that.

Shin Ryoku said:
The question to me is whether pics of guns by gun enthusiasts are inherently an endorsement of gun rights. It does strike me as different from pics of churches, which I don't see as an endorsement of religion.

Shin Ryoku said:
If everyone were posting pics of their own church, that might be more comparable. Lots of people post pictures of churches just because they are interesting to look at. Those posting the gun pics are posting pics of their own guns. Many are also expressing admiration/appreciation for other members' guns which they have posted pics of.

So because you don't find gun pictures interesting, nobody does, and they're automatically political.

But people can find church pictures interesting?

zappaDPJ · Nov 18, 2017

I'd say this is probably more about location than anything else. If the forum was UK based I doubt this would be an issue at all.

However there is an issue and the question is how to solve it without losing members. If making the thread visible only to those that want to participate is not an option you could ask your members to vote on it. I don't really know what else to suggest.

haqzore · Nov 18, 2017

Does the site allow comments/discussion?

Is that where you feel the conflict is?

Maybe disable comments/whatever instead of censoring it entirely.

I still feel you're pushing your own beliefs by doing that. Censoring one group in any fashion and not another is sure to cause conflict, unless you also ban comments/pictures of the churches your members attend (for example).

Shin Ryoku · Nov 18, 2017

Tecca said:
Right, much like the way you're only seeing the other side of it. Gotcha.

Incorrect. I absolutely see your side. In fact, my personal initial and longstanding viewpoint was and remains the same as yours. But after thinking about it, I can see why some other people see it differently, and as much as people want to say that they are just butthurt, I think that’s a cop out.

Tecca · Nov 18, 2017

And none of us can see it differently? Just you? I absolutely see your side as well, but it does not hold nearly as much weight. Censor more than just guns then, because there's plenty of photographs that can be perceived as political.

Shin Ryoku · Nov 18, 2017

Tecca said:
And none of us can see it differently? Just you? I absolutely see your side as well, but it does not hold nearly as much weight. Censor more than just guns then, because there's plenty of photographs that can be perceived as political.

You still misrepresent me. My side is the same as your side. The difference is that I see that there is another legitimate perspective than ours.

zappaDPJ seems to see it as well, so it’s not just me.

Tecca · Nov 18, 2017

I very much feel this is an all-in matter. Either anything and everything that can be perceived as political is not to be posted in the form of text or photography, or allow firearms to be a part of it.

Making a rule against firearm photography itself feels very political to me.

MarkFL · Nov 18, 2017

Personally, and I may be labeled one way or the other, but I think those who have an issue with people posting pics of their gun collections on a site where the site owner has allowed it, need to just deal with it. By that, I mean they need to recognize that there are people who legally own guns, enjoy collecting them, and are enjoying sharing pics of their collections. And if they are offended, they can simply not view the thread(s) they may find offends them, or they can leave the site, and personally, I would not miss such people too terribly much. Just like we used to tell people way back when, change the channel if the TV show ruffles your dainty feathers, don't demand that no one gets to watch it. Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose, you know?

Shin Ryoku · Nov 18, 2017

zappaDPJ said:
However there is an issue and the question is how to solve it without losing members.

I'm pretty sure we lose a few members either way.

Digital Phoenix · Nov 19, 2017

Shin Ryoku said:
I'm pretty sure we lose a few members either way.

And those people that want to post pictures of their guns may also leave.

The moment people try turning through thread politely, shut the discussion down, it's your site, your responsibility to uphold your rules.

Remove posts and issue warnings if you must.

haqzore · Nov 19, 2017

Shin Ryoku said:
I'm pretty sure we lose a few members either way.

I'd consider the snowball effect.

I doubt being offended will stop at the removal of gun pictures. What do you do when the next group gets offended at people posting pictures of a church? No issue according to you, people are allowed to appreciate a church (but not a gun).

What about when people post pictures of churches they attend? Still no issue?

The censoring slope is far to slippery, and I'd rather not tread it unless I'm fully committed and have it planned out.

(side note: I've never owned a gun in my life)

Shin Ryoku · Nov 19, 2017

haqzore said:
I'd consider the snowball effect.

I doubt being offended will stop at the removal of gun pictures. What do you do when the next group gets offended at people posting pictures of a church? No issue according to you, people are allowed to appreciate a church (but not a gun).

I have another photography site where the gun thread was closed quite a few years ago after similar complaints. Some members did leave at the time due to perceived "censorship" over not being able to post their gun pics, but there was no snowball effect from the complaining group. No one subsequently asked us to remove pics of knives, churches, etc.

My gut feeling is that we shouldn't have closed the gun thread on that other site either, but doing so definitely decreased the work of moderation, which is in itself a priority to me.

Shin Ryoku · Nov 19, 2017

Tracy Perry said:
Not picking on you personally... but this is a symptom of society today. To pursue the "easy, quick fix" instead of necessarily standing up for what is essentially right is the road many are taking.
Your admission of your gut feeling somewhat acknowledges that fact.

It’s pretty clear you are bringing your own politics into this discussion. I am under no moral or ethical obligation to provide for any subject matter of any type on a privately owned site that I maintain as a hobby for my own enjoyment.

If I didn’t make choices that limited moderator time and effort expenditure, I’d just as soon shut down the sites. I don’t have the time or inclination to do the sites according to your or anyone else’s ideas of what they should be.

For example, I have nothing against nudity or nude photography, but it makes my life easier to exclude it, so I do. People who want to be able to post nude photos have a lot of other choices of places to spend their time!

MarkFL · Nov 19, 2017

I think someone already raised this point, but suppose people begin to complain about pictures of automobiles...far more people are killed in traffic accidents than by guns and/or pollution from cars is harming the environment...do you take down those threads?

Shin Ryoku · Nov 19, 2017

Tracy Perry said:
Well, considering that I don't own any firearms... pretty sure you just shot a big old blank as for a political outlook on firearms

You don’t have to own any guns to have a political slant in this discussion. Yours is plain to see in your comments about society.

Tracy Perry said:
Instead you apparently decided to lock/remove the thread - which some would call the cowards way out.

Those would be folks who don’t know the meaning of cowardice.

Seeing as how you’re resorting to personal insults at this point, I’m done responding to you. Not said out of cowardice; I just have better things to do than trade insults in a forum.

Shin Ryoku · Nov 19, 2017

MarkFL said:
I think someone already raised this point, but suppose people begin to complain about pictures of automobiles...far more people are killed in traffic accidents than by guns and/or pollution from cars is harming the environment...do you take down those threads?

No one is going to complain about those since people’s right to own cars isn’t a political topic in any country where my members come from.

MarkFL · Nov 19, 2017

Shin Ryoku said:
No one is going to complain about those since people’s right to own cars isn’t a political topic in any country where my members come from.

But, for the sake of argument, suppose a few did begin to complain about some other photographic subject that they had found some way to politicize?

Shin Ryoku · Nov 19, 2017

MarkFL said:
But, for the sake of argument, suppose a few did begin to complain about some other photographic subject that they had found some way to politicize?

I can only think of one example of a situation that would be comparable, and that would be a thread where people posted pictures of “recreational” drugs. No one has started such a thread yet, but I bet it would get a lot of complaints if they did. I’d feel similarly torn about whether to leave it open.

MarkFL · Nov 19, 2017

Shin Ryoku said:
I can only think of one example of a situation that would be comparable, and that would be a thread where people posted pictures of “recreational” drugs. No one has started such a thread yet, but I bet it would get a lot of complaints if they did. I’d feel similarly torn about whether to leave it open.

I'm really just asking you to do a thought experiment, whereby members of your community see that you took down the gun collection thread, and begin to complain about other threads as being implicitly in favor of some political agenda, or any other reason for taking offense that they might cook up. Someone previously pointed out that this is a slippery slope, and I agree.

I can understand taking complaints from the community into consideration, and if compelling reasons to modify site guidelines are given, with which the majority of staff agrees, I'm in favor of this. Rules shouldn't necessarily be set in stone, as there's always room for improvement. But in this case, I personally wouldn't be compelled to change unless a clear consensus among the staff and community agreed.

Allow a gun pics thread on a politics free photography forum?

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