The Extreme Complexity of Online Forum Quoting

[Sal Collaziano]

Should we have a threaded layout to easily see who's replying to who? Or would that just make things uglier and more confusing for the social network generation?

 

[MarkFL]

Should we have a threaded layout to easily see who's replying to who?

No. Then we don't have a forum, but rather a social gathering.

Or would that just make things uglier and more confusing for the social network generation?

These folks need to eat a big bowl of "get with the program."

 

[doubt]

Should we have a threaded layout to easily see who's replying to who? Or would that just make things uglier and more confusing for the social network generation?

It existed in some VB versions but did not gain popularity, it's been dropped.

 

[Karll]

Ask yourself this: If a sensible developer were to create a new forum software in 2017, would they use BBCode? I randomly had a look at Misago which has been talked about on here. And yeah, it's Markdown.

What do you call the "most common features"? Heck, I've seen three different takes on strike through.

Strike through is not what I consider a common feature I can't remember the last time I saw that used anywhere.

Multiple variations on lists. Quotes are also inconsistent, almost as bad as bbcode really.

Pick the standard that is more common, or the one that makes the most sense. Or both!

quotes with attribution

Fair enough, maybe one or two things are still missing. However, I feel the simplified markup weighs up for that, and I'm sure some kind of standard for this will emerge if it's needed.

Having it as a user choice just means no one will use it unless they're told about it and from experience of being a forum dev, even that will be rare.

Exactly. Hidden, that is where BBCode belongs!

 

[Pete]

There are multiple standards of Markdown! There's the original spec which is super simple except for all the bits it leaves to full on HTML, there's CommonMark which was championed by Discourse except at the time even Discourse didn't follow it, there's GitHub-flavoured Markdown. All subtly different, all subtly incompatible.

And that's just the three big ones. Slack has its own variations on the above. As does Discord. As does RocketChat, HexChat last I checked and even on occasion Facebook Messenger if used on a laptop.

This is what you're advocating? Which one?

 

[haqzore]

Should we have a threaded layout to easily see who's replying to who? Or would that just make things uglier and more confusing for the social network generation?

Who knows.
Reddit uses it, and is now the 4th most popular site in America.

No. Then we don't have a forum, but rather a social gathering.

I disagree that simply changing any random forum to a threaded layout makes it a social "gathering"... Whatever that means.

These folks need to eat a big bowl of "get with the program."

Or maybe we admins do. Who knows.

There are plenty of things I dislike about threaded layouts, but 138,000 subreddits with 300 million monthly users can't be wrong... Can they?

 

[LeadCrow]

Who knows.
Reddit uses it, and is now the 4th most popular site in America.

Threaded replies alone do not improve readability of content that much.
Consider the differences since their original introduction on forums. Forums had only chronological ordering (most recent, or oldest post first), and karma systems were seen negatively. Replies couldnt be weighted or sorted using many criterias.

Bad replies wouldnt sink, good replies not surface, only posting first, last or highjacking a top comment would give you any visibility. I strongly doubt reddit couldve succeeded like that.

 

[skrinkle]

I don’t use Reddit specifically because I didn’t understand what I was reading or why it was out of order or where my post was or who I was talking to etc. I HATE that layout, and I stick to forums that are old school.

 

[haqzore]

I don’t use Reddit specifically because I didn’t understand what I was reading or why it was out of order or where my post was or who I was talking to etc. I HATE that layout, and I stick to forums that are old school.

I too didn't understand it at first,but it doesn't take long to "get it".

This is part of the problem with many of us admins. We aren't used to it, so shrug it off.

Like I stated previously, I don't use threaded on any of my sites. But "sticking to what is old school" sometimes leaves you in the past.

 

[BioWarfare]

I don’t use Reddit specifically because I didn’t understand what I was reading or why it was out of order or where my post was or who I was talking to etc. I HATE that layout, and I stick to forums that are old school.

It takes about 5 minutes to understand Reddit's threaded layout. It will take an additional 10 minutes to learn that the reputation system is broken.

 

[LeadCrow]

It will take an additional 10 minutes to learn that the reputation system is broken.

Can you elaborate? From here it looks to be working normally.

 

[BioWarfare]

Can you elaborate? From here it looks to be working normally.

I just need to downvote your post.

 

[LeadCrow]

Downvoting is a only a signal. Not necessarily about disagreeing or issues existing in posts, just a silent response.

A proper reply will always be less ambiguous, and more likely to rise than sink, in threaded discussions with ratings.

 

[haqzore]

I just need to downvote your post.

This... Explains nothing.

 

[Pete]

This... Explains nothing.

What about the post from EA about Star Wars Battlefront II, that hit something like -600k votes in a day?

 

[Paul M]

Threaded view is dreadful, and reddit is a prime example.

As to the original questiom, its not really an issue on our forum, I see perhaps one a month.

Its almoat always because they did it right to start with, then decided to edit something, and accidently deleted a [ or ]

 

[BioWarfare]

This... Explains nothing.

YOU CAN HIDE CONTENT SIMPLY BY DOWNVOTING IT.

REGULAR USERS CAN EVEN BAN OTHER REGULAR USERS WITH ENOUGH DOWNVOTES.

Hope that helps.

 

[MarkFL]

Threaded view is dreadful, and reddit is a prime example.

I agree completely. To me, seeing all the posts as they occurred chronologically, from first to last, is the most useful format. I've seen no other way to present a discussion that is as good as that.

As to the original questiom, its not really an issue on our forum, I see perhaps one a month.

Its almoat always because they did it right to start with, then decided to edit something, and accidently deleted a [ or ]

Yes, I just get annoyed because they didn't care enough to make the Herculean effort to rectify their broken post.

 

[haqzore]

What about the post from EA about Star Wars Battlefront II, that hit something like -600k votes in a day?

What about it?

YOU CAN HIDE CONTENT SIMPLY BY DOWNVOTING IT.

Minimized, not hidden. Downvoted content can be viewed if desired. Many see minimizing content that a majority deems poor to be an ok practice.

While I don't employ it on my own sites, it clearly works very well for reddit.

REGULAR USERS CAN EVEN BAN OTHER REGULAR USERS WITH ENOUGH DOWNVOTES.

Where is it stated users can ban other users?

Hope that helps.

Also- your caps lock was on. Glad you fixed it.

 

[BioWarfare]

Minimized, not hidden. Downvoted content can be viewed if desired. Many see minimizing content that a majority deems poor to be an ok practice.

Minimized on steroids. Posts with downvotes get hidden at the bottom of threads and it is hard to locate them unless you specifically look for it. That's not a good system in my opinion. Like right now mine or your posts, most likely mine, would be downvoted so much that nobody would ever find this series of quotes unless they looked for it and then the mods would most likely delete it.

Also, what I meant by users banning other users is, if an user gets downvotes, they become shadow banned. They get banned without a moderator ever lifting a finger. Now tell me how that would be very productive for constructive discussion. My entire point is that Reddit is not a good site for discussing touchy subjects or debate. That's why I enjoy forums and not Reddit. Anyone can see my posts until a moderator deems them against the rules, they are not hidden and I do not get shadow banned so easily.